From: Karen Rand Smigrodzki (karen@smigrodzki.org)
Date: Fri Apr 11 2003 - 00:07:51 MDT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Damien Broderick" <damienb@unimelb.edu.au>
>
> How is it that Muslims (of several varieties) are looting in the first
> place? One of the claims often made in favor of nasty Islamic countries is
> that `at least people respect your property'; you can leave your bag
> unattended and nobody will touch it, etc. Images of thieves' hands cut
off.
> Maybe this restraint, if it's ever existed, is not internalized, but
merely
> a prudent response to the threat of authorities with a thousand eyes. Or
> maybe an event of this magnitude is a cultural singularity where the usual
> values go on the blink. Maybe it's situational, and people feel they're
> just reclaiming what was stolen from them by the thugs in charge. (But one
> hears of hospitals filled with injured and dying being looted.)
>
> Damien Broderick
Wow, I have to say that this surprises me to read. I think Ramez can
answer best since he is from Egypt if I heard correctly. However, I will say
something about this since I spent many years of my life with Muslims, and
have visited and traveled in Libya and Egypt.
I am surprised because I never knew that Islamic countries had the
reputation of being a place where people respect your property. It certainly
isn't what I have experienced at all. In fact, the attitude of the people
reminds me a lot of post-communist Poland (sorry raf). I did not find that
people will respect you or your property UNLESS you are somehow 1) in a
higher social status that is apparent to them or 2) somehow connected
presently to them socially. In other words, when they think they can get
away with it, they do it. They are quite commonplace humans. Oh, if you are
in a mosque, no one will touch your stuff. That would just be wrong.
In public, in Egypt, men will fondle women of all ages and sizes, people
push, shove, and steal from each other, and it is all quite normal. I never
tried putting my bag down, but the Egyptian woman I was with kept tight hold
on hers and a hawk eye all around us. I believe if given the chance, our
bags would have walked off without us.
The scenes of looting I see in Iraq currently are not surprising to me.
The people are not benefiting from a democracy or a free market. People live
very modestly for the most part. If A has a hammer, A wants to keep it; it
belongs to A no matter how he came to have possession of it. If B takes A's
hammer, B wants to keep it; it belongs to B. Both A and B feel no one has
the right to take the hammer from them. However, C-Z feel that who ever has
the hammer should share, since that is only fair, until C has the hammer,
and you see where it goes.
How it goes in Saudia I have no idea, it is one country I will never
visit. I would imagine that there the threat of appendage separation would
cut down on theft. The womens' situation there is different as well.
--karen
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