From: Lee Corbin (lcorbin@tsoft.com)
Date: Wed Mar 12 2003 - 21:36:53 MST
Dan writes
> Is patriotism an Extropic value?
I would say No, except under certain circumstances. Generally,
patriotism is neither extropian nor anti-extropian, but orthogonal.
In some societies, such as ancient Athens, patriotism would
indeed be an extropian virtue. Were the city-state of Athens
to be extinguished circa 500 B.C., it would have been a
terrible setback for extropianism.
Our own situation is only partly parallel. Firstly, Athens
was unique, whereas no Western country is unique. Secondly,
imagine a hypothetical situation wherein no citizen of any
Western nation had an ounce of patriotism. In this event,
either the German Reich or the Soviet State would have
completely dominated the world long before this.
Thus, on my analysis, the first factor speaks against,
and the second factor speaks in favor, of patriotism
being an extropian value.
> Related to this, is nationalism an Extropic value?
As you pointed, out these terms are objectively too
similar under the current context to warrant separate
discussion.
> Also, during this time of crisis -- as well as during many others --
> people who disagree over foreign policy issues often accuse each other
> of not being patriotic -- or not patriotic enough. So determining just
> what stance or behavior is patriotic might be hard to pin down
> _objectively_ in any case.
As a devout realist, I revel in objectively determining
anything that I can get away with. Patriotism, simply,
is love of country in the same way as parents love children.
The love can be so intense that it colors all views, and
only with the greatest difficulty permits dealing rationally
with the brutal, emotionally unwelcome, reality.
It may take a man some time before he can recognize and
admit to himself that his son is a drunkard, and yet still
he will put the best possible face on the situation, and
rejoice in each little positive sign with great optimism.
Yet despite everything, he still must do what needs to be
done, if he's truly to help his son.
Thus even an American who deeply loves his country, and
always sees the actions of his nation in the best possible
light, might finally be driven to despair, and forced,
however obliquely, to repudiate the actions taken by his
country.
Yet just as you can distinguish the man who deeply loves
his son from the man who merely tolerates his adopted son,
so can you sense and hear in every syllable the fundamental
emotion of those who criticize their own nations. In the
final analysis, it really is a question of whose side you're on.
Lee
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