Re: Spacetime/Inflation/Civilizations

From: Rafal Smigrodzki (rafal@smigrodzki.org)
Date: Thu Mar 06 2003 - 00:19:23 MST

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    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Hal Finney" <hal@finney.org>
    >
    > We can then ask, what percentage of instantiations of a given world X
    > exist in the real universe versus in simulations? This is a question
    > that is answerable in principle, at least if we stick to a simple form
    > of parallelism like Tegmark's level one (namely that in a spatially
    > infinite universe, all possible worlds exist an infinite number of times).
    >
    > You'd have to estimate what fraction of worlds evolve intelligent life
    > forms capable of performing such simulations. These would include worlds
    > whose past history is identical to our own but which are farther along
    > their developmental path because they got started a little earlier.
    > They would have seen a slightly younger universe than we do now, but
    > given the uncertainties, they could easily be at least many thousands
    > of years ahead of us and still have us be a valid model of their past.

    ### I remember discussing exactly this issue about a year and a half ago
    here, with scerir, in relation to Nick Bostrom's then released article about
    living in simulations. I argued that his conclusion that we are very likely
    in a simulation, based on the anthropic principle, is hard to justify, and I
    mentioned Vilenkin's eternal expansion as a counter-argument. I argued that
    we have very inadequate basis for estimating the fraction of N/S, where N is
    the number of civilizations created naturally, and S is the number of
    simulations. The way I see it now, a large N/S would mean that either we
    will die soon, or if we don't die we won't be running many simulations, or
    else we indeed *are* likely to be in a simulation. The second possibility is
    most interesting as a way of predicting future development in ethics - if we
    don't run simulations despite being alive, and we do not enter technological
    stasis (this would be an unlikely event IMO - we will either grow or die),
    then the reason for not running them would be ethical, and pertinent to a
    large fraction of cvilizations.Would it mean that transhuman ethical
    development precludes simulations?

    Of course, since we can't for now dis(prove) being simulated, this is all
    just hazy theo(log)(r)ising.

    Rafal



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