Re: Iraq: the case for decisive action

From: Spudboy100@aol.com
Date: Sat Jan 25 2003 - 13:17:33 MST


Kai stated:
<<So, the prime goal has not been achieved>>

Yes indeed, and I fault the administration for this tactic.

<<IMHO, an elegant way would be to improve the self-marketing of the
western principles, which would dry out the basis for hatred and false
beliefs.>>

Well, if you are saying people lead best by example, I heartilly, agree.
However, with the Islamic Militant mentality, your success will likely
produce increased hatred through that magical, word...envy. They would envy
and hate us more for our success then our good intentions.

<<Once you drop onto this level, all moral principles become invalid and it
will be
extremely difficult to earn back any respect for them.>>

I am not so confident as moral principles, as you. After viewing world
history, I tend to hold honesty and humor above moral principles; as a
guiding human value. Moral principles will not withstand a jihadi bomb.

<<Please stop your imputations that I would sympathize with dictators or
terrorists. I don't. And I don't support aggression, neither from terrorist,
nor from allies. It's fine that the Taliban regime is destroyed, but the
problem will not be solved until a stable, free and democratic society has
been established with the support and
understanding of the people there.>>

Undertstand that the US went after the Taleban because they had co-mingled
with Al Qeida. We went into Afghanistan for our own selfish reason-to
retaliate and disrupt the attackers of 9-11, from their base. If the Afghani
people were freed, that came as a side-effect. Had the Taleban turned over
Osama, we likely would never had invaded.

<<It's not enough to destroy the oppressor; you have to support the
development process afterwards and the positive forces of that country.
The only one positive example in history I can remember, where an
oppressive regime has been destroyed, a nation been freed and then be
helped to develop a stable, democratic society is Germany - because it
was needed in the upcoming cold war. That's why Marshall won over
Morgenthau.>>

I am not so sure, Morgenthau wasn't right. Turn Deutschland into 3 or 4 large
cantons and make them pacifist. It appears to be the direction Schroeder
wants anyway, so perhaps Morgenthau was prescien?

<<Uh-oh, we should be very careful with accusations in this area. The
whole US space program of the 50s to the 70s has been lead by former
Nazi followers. Von Braun even was a member of the SS and has surely
known where the forced labor in Peenemünde came from. The former german
rocket team got clearance from the US military, approved by the
government, which was clearly against the US law at that time. And if we
really go back into that time, we shouldn't forget the grandfather of
G.W.Bush, who was convicted 1942 for being a collaborator with the
Nazis. I don't think it makes any sense to dig out rotten corpses.>>

Clearly, the US (and Soviets) used German scientists who were invariably
member of the Partei, and yes even Von Braun was a SS member. I recall Von
Braun being a childhood hero of mine. Funny, that he could've murdered
relatives of mine at Norhausen, perhaps? GW Bush (Granddad) surely was an
syncophant to Hitler, and one reason never to trust Bush Sr (a failed
Presdient) and to have doubts about Jr. But, as the saying goes, the truth
will out.

<<In my opinion, this vicious circle will endlessly feed the extremist
groups. The more aggressive the West acts, the more aggressive and
dangerous this enemy will become. To break the circle, we either have to
kill every possible follower, which are many millions of people or find
better ways than military strikes.

    Kai>>

If the Muslim world wants to go off the deep end because it craves to blame
the USA for all its ills they, or anyone else are welcome to try.



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