From: Emlyn O'regan (oregan.emlyn@healthsolve.com.au)
Date: Mon Jan 20 2003 - 21:51:33 MST
Robert wrote:
> I will throw down the gauntlet here. I will assert that
> Saddam Husein is a demonstrably unextropic vector (to
> the degree that he destroys the citizens of other countries
> and holds back the development and advancement of the citizens
> of Iraq.)
>
> I am not fond of Bush, his politics, his strategies, etc.
> In my opinion he is largely a turkey. *But* that should
> not color the issue of whether or not Saddam is a really
> bad actor who should be removed from the stage. Then the
> debate becomes how best to accomplish that.
>
> (Side note to Emlyn -- I believe we may be dealing with as
> bad or worse actors in North Korea so there are some significant
> prioritization concerns.)
Unextropic? This whole war option is unextropic. Relying on war to address
symptoms of bigger problems; it's the attitude "If you can't fix it with a
hammer, you can't fix it".
Some random related points off the top of my head:
- Get off oil. There are a *lot* of alternatives these days, which just need
some investment.
- The planet's surface is 80% water. Why is there a water problem? There
must be *some* way to get water somewhere else than from the nearest river.
- Why can't we cooperate? What's the story with the whole nation gig,
anyway? Why do we get bucketloads of implicit and explicit nationalism and
jingoism on extro-l of all places?
- The spread of religious memes is not inevitable, it's just what is
currently happening. Why do these millenia old religions appeal to people;
how can we fix that?
- If you intend to wage war for peace and freedom, to free people from the
chains of their oppressors, surely you would open your borders to those same
people. In fact, if much of the world is oppressed by dictators, and you
decide you have to beat them (ie: their people) senseless/dead in order to
free them from their chains, why wouldn't you fight also to open borders? It
seems that these arguments rely on the fact that people are not free to
choose for themselves where they would live, thus allowing dictators. A
power that was concerned with fixing this would be trying to establish the
freedom of movement for all peoples, and using clobering powers to enforce
it.
etc etc etc
Emlyn
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