> As I once put it, the goal of transhumanism is to create gods that
> can pun - and can stand being joked about.
Interesting concept -- to create gods. The presumption seems to be that
it is possible for gods to exist, but they don't exist yet -- it's up to us
to create them.
What kind of space do gods exist in? -- I am not referring to "space"
in the ordinary sense of the word, i.e. three-dimensional space. In
mathematics, we have vector spaces, topological spaces, and so forth.
Graphics designers speak of "color space." That's the kind of space
I'm talking about. Do gods exist in some kind of deity space?
You seem to be saying that deity space is now empty, but is not
*necessarily* empty. Gods can exist, but they don't exist yet.
This seems to me like saying that it is possible for even numbers
to exist, but they don't exist yet -- it's up to us to create them.
Or, it is possible for colors to exist, but they don't exist yet -- we
have to create them.
There are some spaces for which this idea would make sense. For
example, consider all musical compositions to exist in "music space."
Five hundred years ago, someone could have said, "It is possible for
symphonies to exist, but they don't exist yet. We have to create them."
However, even then music space wasn't empty. Going back farther,
back to prehistoric times, there was a time before music. There was a
time when music space was empty, and someone could have said, "It's
possible for songs to exist, but they don't exist yet. It's up to us to
create them."
You are postulating that deity space is like music space or
machine space -- gods are the sort of thing that can be created.
You are also postulating that the entities that populate deity space
may or may not laugh -- it is possible for gods to be either
laughing or non-laughing; Jove or YHWH.
And you are proposing that we attempt to create a god that
not only laughs, but can stand being laughed at.
I'm not sure if you are also assuming that deity space is now empty,
like music space was before the first song was sung.
The problem is, there is a non-laughing god who claims that he
already exists, and that he is the King of the Hill; and who backs up
these claims by inspiring his followers to exert a real force in the world.
He calls himself YHWH, or "the Lord."
There is only one recorded instance, that I know of, where he laughed
(Psalm #2):
! Why do the nations conspire
! and the peoples plot in vain?
! The kings of the earth take their stand
! and the rulers take counsel together
! against the Lord [YHWH]
! and against his anointed.
! "Let us break their chains," they say,
! "and throw off their fetters."
!
! >>The One enthroned in heaven laughs; <<
! the Lord [YHWH] scoffs at them.
! Then he rebukes them in his anger
! and terrifies them in his wrath, saying
! "I have installed my King
! on Zion, my holy hill."
!
! I will proclaim the decree of the Lord [YHWH]:
!
! He said to me, "You are my Son,
! today I have become your Father.
! Ask of me,
! and I will make the nations your inheritance,
! the ends of the earth your possession.
! You will rule them with an iron scepter;
! you will dash them to pieces like pottery."
!
! Therefore, you kings, be wise;
! be warned, you rulers of the earth.
! Serve the Lord with fear
! and rejoice with trembling.
! Kiss the Son, lest he be angry
! and you be destroyed in your way,
! for his wrath can flare up in a moment.
! Blessed are all who take refuge in him.
"The One enthroned in heaven laughs" -- this is not Jovial laughter,
this is the har har har of the victor stomping his opponent's head.
As far as I can tell, this is the only time in the Old Testament when
"the Lord" laughs at all.
The English word "Lord" has become such a cliche' that it has lost
most of its meaning. If you consider the Latin equivalent, Dominus,
the meaning is clearer: the Lord is somebody who dominates.
The Boss. Somebody you don't treat with disrespect, or even with
too much familiarity. The peasants don't talk back to the Lord of the
Manor, let alone laugh at him. They approach him with fear and
trembling.
Mr. Singularity reminds us what "the Lord" means when he writes,
>> Another sure way of revealing the sacred cows is to try to joke
>> about them. If there is anything a sacred cow cannot stand, it is
>> humour (at least about itself, joking about others sacred cows is
>> quite acceptable). The best way to reveal someone to be a fanatic or
>> memeoid is to see if he or she can joke about his or her beliefs.
>
> Do I qualify? I see the Holocaust as a horrendous tragedy,
> and if someone smaller than me made a joke about it, I'd
> punch his lights out.
Exactly. And since you don't have to do it by yourself --
you have your extended family, and YHWH himself, backing you up --
*everybody* is smaller than you.
In the presence of YHWH, one doesn't laugh. One bends the knee.
The question is whether it is possible to "create" a new god,
a more Jovial god, who can laugh at anything and get away with it --
and who can even stand being joked about.
The operational meaning of this is: Can such a god
inspire his followers to exert a real force in the world?
Lyle
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"The gods are later than this world's creation."
-- Rig Veda
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