Re: Beyond The Beyond

Chris Hind (
Mon, 09 Dec 1996 14:34:38 -0800

>Well i can hardly believe my own eyes here. What is this talk? What
>happened to "self organisation in a chaotic systems?"

It's like they've suddenly thrown all we've learned about spontaneous
orders and the free market out the window.

>We don't need a overall design for this thing. What we need is a Technical
>design guide for how to submit construcions, ideas, artwork etc. All we
>need is an URL and a ftp adress. Then everybody can do their own stuff.

Just use VRML specs and use teleporters to bridge the gap between each of
our worlds. Decentralize! We can meet on my mist-shrouded mountain on
thursday and your mansion overlooking an orange sea on saturday.
Spontaneous orders will determine what environments we will want to visit
more often. Just like how webpages compete for hits.

>Let the good old competition decide who makes the best stuff. Lets have


>list. Somebody wants to do a 3D IRC chatchannel? Let'm roll their own.)
>Max More is completely right in saying that the biggest problem in a task
>like this is that we can get no pay, and that we work at different paces. I
>to have a LOT of experience in zero finance projects. The only way they can
>work is if there is some kind of personal gain. (Artistic or financial) If
>the financial gain is out of the loop, then it is almost impossible to get
>somebody to work for free on one's own pet project. We all wanna do our own

Again I agree. Labor of love. Self-motivated environments. Earlier someone
meantioned tens of millions of dollars to put up a basic transhuman VRML
world. Many people here on the list have webpages they put up themselves
without spending thousands of dollars. It's not like each of us need to go
out and purchase a T1 line and a high-end server, we can do it simply with
our own internet accounts because most internet service providers will
supply you with a free 1-10MB webpage. You can use that space to put your
VRML world on especially now that most VRML WLD files are Gzipped. If your
ISP doesn't give out free webpages, try for a free 1MB one.

>We need to build a completely open system that we all can modify at our own
>will. (well as much as possible.) The documentation should be there. Design
>guides, technical limitations etc. But no overall design. With sections and
>stuff. They will come automatically.

The VRML specs are all we need. Why limit the possibilities for creative
energy by centralizing the transhuman VRML realm?

>Let the beyond live it's own life.

Agreed. It will evolve naturally. Ask your own DNA, does centralization
work? If it could reply it would with a resounding No.

>I could do cool VRML stuff today, maybe i could later add music, sound
>effects and so on. (What about a 4Dimensional version of "LIFE" with a
>sound for when a cell dies and another when it is born. That could look
>cool and make interresting sounds. with 3D balls(or pyramids) shifting
>around in 3D space thru a 4th dimension. Whenever all the cells had died
>new ones could be generated randomly.) Well just an idea :-)

A good idea, but only the start of an incredible range of possibilities.
(Not to put it down), But we haven't even begun to imagine how it will
evolve and appear a decade from now. For those without VRML experience, I
included, start writing up ideas in a text file or even on paper and evolve
those landscapes and environments for more and more detail until the tools
are easy enough for anyone to be able to create a VRML realm just as
webpages are becoming easier and easier to create.

>What we are designing is a social system. Let's use as many "off the shelf"
>tools as possible. Moore's law tells us that they'll soon be wery

Absolutely. Do you know of any good freeware or shareware VRML creating tools?

>Then we can do it and make our own dreams come thru.
>They will probably match each other nicely.

I highly agree with you Max. If we all share certain common threads that
unite us to form this mailinglist in the first place, those threads will
definately show up in our independant realms.