Re: Conspiracy FACT vs GOVT Fabrication
Mon, 21 Oct 1996 16:12:20 +0000

> At 07:46 PM 10/20/96 -0600, Kyle L. Webb wrote:
> >>
> >> CS molecule contains a "cyanide radical" ... CS also converts to
> >> hydrogen cyanide upon heating. In fact, surviving bodies where
> >> found to contain very high levels of cyanide.
> > I've used CS quite a good many times in military training. One of the
> > standard means of dispersal is a burning type grenade. While in Korea
> > I set up tear gas chambers for NBC defense training where the method
> > for dispersal was to use CS powder heated over an open flame. In both
> > cases I have stood in the resulting aerosol sans mask for extended periods
> > (once you're used to it, CS is not all that incapacitating even in pretty
> > high levels). I daresay that if there were significant levels of cyanide
> > generated from heating of CS in a normal flame, I would have seen the
> > gray skin, and malaise that comes with cyanide poisoning.
> IAN: CS manufacturers such as Aldrich Chemical Company of Milwaukee,
> Wisconsin state in their official company literature on CS, that when
> burned CS emits toxic fumes, such as hydrogen cyanide and hydrogen
> chloride. The Aldrich company also states that if water is poured
> on burning CS, a lethal cloud of hydrogen cyanide can be released.
> Even more, the toxic and flammable agent methyl chloride, used in
> Waco to cause the CS dust to become suspended in the air, when burned
> releases extremely toxic phosgene gas (Trial transcript: 5735, 5756,
> 5916, 5921). (BTW, I'm told that the trial transcripts are now on
> the web but I do not know the URL, a search should uncover them.)
> There is even an aerial photo of the Mt. Carmel shortly after the fire
> breaks out, in which the whole center is in a cloud of white smoke, it's
> believed that this cloud is a phosgene-cyanide gas cloud. Both hydrogen
> cyanide and phosgene gas were used in the Nazi's gas chambers before
> zyklon-B was used. Waco, TX: Auschwitz USA.
> Also, a report by Amnesty International confirmed that CS and CN gas
> had lead to the deaths of over 40 Palestinians, including 18 babies,
> who had all been exposed, like the Davidians, to tear-gas in enclosed
> spaces. As a result of this report, American manufacturers halted
> sales of tear-gas to the Israeli govt (The Davidan Massacre, p.294-5).
> It must be that the CS you dispersed was simply carried up quickly by
> the radiant heat of the flame rather than actually burning and thus
> releasing toxic fumes. I would imagine that you may still have
> had low-level cyanide exposure.

I too have had repeated, excessive exposure to CS gas. Unlike, the above
described NBC gas chamber, many of my experiences were delivered via
grenades producing clouds so thick I couldn't see my hands in front of
my face. I never suffered any ill effects (beyond those you would
expect) and eventually built quite a tolerance to the stuff.

However, the burning dispersal system on military grenades is a
fairly temperature controlled environment. It heats it enough to
vaporize and eject the CS, but not usually hot enough to cause
decomposition of the material. This may have been the difference
with the Waco incident. The internal temperatures of that complex
would have easily exceeded the decomposition point for CS.

Also, it is known to be technically possible to produce a fatality with CS. The
difference between military CS and the more civilian CN tear gas is
that CS is a mixture of CN (non-lethal) and small quantities of
another chemical weapon that is known to have lethal properties.
Excessive exposure to the second component could kill you. I don't
remember the name of the second component off the top of my head, but
it dates back to WWII or so.

The second component is added to give the normal teargas more kick.
CN causes burning and tearing and that's about it. The second
component causes severe nausea, cramps, etc. and generally makes you
have a bad day.

-James Rogers