Please post the following to the Extropian digest. Thanks.
-- Our President is visiting Norway on Monday November the 1st, in connection with a peace conference, maybe this would be a good time to raise the question of securing free travel and trade across the North Atlantic? I have a few questions, I think others too, might find it of value to ask Mr. Clinton. Please pass these questions on to The President or his staff, to Tim Wirth, David Skaggs & Federico Pena even if they are no longer in Washington, to the present Senator and Congress person from Boulder/Denver to any media outlet in Boulder/Denver, Colorado or Oslo, Norway & to anyone else that might be interested. Thanks. Maybe any American or Norwegian journalist or politician would like to raise these question to Bill Clinton while he is in Norway, too, or at least pass on to him a copy or printout of this letter? Sincerely, Trygve Bauge trygveb@powertech.no (Formerly of Boulder, Colorado, presently of Oslo, Norway.) (If you respond, please send a carbon copy to my e-mail address, since I might not otherwise see your response.) Mr, President. 1.Will you consider using your last years in office to remove all travel & trade barriers between EU and the United States? 2.Would you consider making it as easy to travel between the United States and EU/the Schengen countries, as it is to travel within the latter? 3.What about removing the duty on Norwegian salmon? 4.With regard to the current trade war over bananas, when will you stop using travel and trade restrictions to punish the same, and instead fight for freedom of travel and trade by means that better further the latter? 5.What will you be doing to remove all travel and trade barriers between Nafta (The North American Free Trade Association) and the Schengen group (a European free travel & trade association), or at least between EU (the European Union) and the US.? 6.Are you familiar with Trygve Bauge's fight for freedom of travel & trade between EU/Schengen and the United States? 7. Will you be doing anything to secure that Trygve Bauge & his mother, can travel freely to their house in Nederland Colorado, and celebrate New year's day with the Polar bear club he founded in Boulder, Colorado? Those where my questions regarding peace & world unity through open borders. Some background arguments for freedom of travel between EU & the U.S. of A.: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ Wealth, culture, standard of living and social services, even the political systems are very similar on both sides of the North Atlantic, and the ongoing trade war and the thugs at the border, are a nuisance for all of us. When will we stop using travel and trade restrictions to punish the same, and instead use means that better further freedom of travel & trade? Non of the traditional objections to free travel applies when it comes to removing the travel obstacles between EU and the US. Since we have equally rich welfare societies on both sides of this border, any removal of the travel barriers would not burden the welfare rolls on either side. It seems to me that the border patrols and road blocks between the two blocks no longer have any justification, and that the benefits of removing these far outweigh any inconvenience this might have to those INS and customs agents that will be put out to pasture. Isn't it time we forbid the INS to deport people just because they are born in Western Europe? One large free market on both sides of the Atlantic would pose great opportunities for entrepreneurs, job-seekers and tourists on both sides. I for one, would be able to travel freely back and forth, and to finish my house, & develop my life-extension facility and polar bear club in Boulder Colorado. My name is Trygve Bauge, I am an American by choice and by heart, and presently in exile. I lived 14 years in the United States as a free (undocumented) alien. In my years in the U.S., I did never request nor receive: neither welfare nor any other government handout. I have never been convicted of any crime, not even a misdemeanor, but was deported back in 1994 because I refused to apply for amnesty, passport, visa and a green card, all of which I qualified for. There was a time when people took pride in liberty and associated this with being undocumented, I still do. I refused to ask permission to do what no one has any right to deny me, and I still do. I will however be back, as soon as we have managed to abolish the remaining travel and trade barriers between EU and the US: It is a sobering thought, that very few of us (Americans) would have been around, if the native Americans had had a better border patrol! There are more people of Norwegian descent in North America, than in Norway! Most have voted with their feet. A large part left for the United states at the end of last century at a time when immigration was relatively free, and the living standard in the US was much better than the living standard in Norway, and they helped build the US. Which goes to prove that free immigration between a poor country and a wealthier country is of benefit to both at least when the wealthier country is larger and easily can absorb the influx. If we create one large free travel and trade association across the North Atlantic, then we could possibly later easily absorb one by one smaller poorer country into the association at great benefit to all! It is really strange how people always are afraid of an influx of others from outside the accepted group. A few centuries ago we used to have travel barriers between our cities and the surrounding country side. Now noone would dream about such a system. Then we had barriers between the Nordic countries, but these too were removed after the second world war. A few years ago I spoke to a construction worker from Finland, that was working in Norway, he was vehemently opposed to foreigners coming to Norway. I had to remind him that being from Finland he was a foreigner himself. To which he got offended. No one seems to object any longer to people traveling freely between the Nordic countries, we all seem to take it for granted, and to such an extent that the system continues to exist in spite of Norway and Iceland being outside EU,- and Sweden, Denmark and Finland being inside. People from other Nordic countries are no longer seen as Foreigners. The last decade has seen the wholesale removal of travel and trade barriers in Europe. In Norway we now look upon people from Great Britain and Germany, the way people in Colorado look upon Texans. While we no longer stop them at the border, we still don't like that they buy up all our mountain farms as vacation retreats. On the other hand once they have lived and worked here a while and learned the local accent, they no longer seems like Texans, I mean Germans. Norway, however, is still as protectionist as the US, maybe even more. But the "enemy" is no longer other Western Europeans. Now people are afraid of those from distant cultures: muslims and those darker tanned than Spaniards and Italians. It seems to me that very few are opposed to opening up for free travel and trade, by expanding an existing free travel and trade association with one country a time. Many people have a sense of "them" and "us". And it is easy to let some country become part of "us" instead of "them". As long as we still have someone we can call "them" that we can refocus our paranoia on. When will we ever learn? No one are more Norwegian or hung up in old Norwegian customs like folklore and lefse than the Norwegian Americans and their voluntary Norwegian clubs. Here in Norway, on the other hand people are watching American made soap operas and reruns while ordering take outs from McDonalds and Pizza hut. Which goes to prove that we don't need travel and trade barriers or obligatory Norwegian in the schools to maintain the culture. Mr, President, this week we are cordoning off most of down town Oslo, our capital, because you (Bill Clinton) are visiting. For a few days it will be like in any of the 50 states here, swarming with 700 (mostly undercover) federal agents! When one has lived for years in a country (like the U.S.) where the neighbours are not all Norwegians, you learn that things function very well without everything being run by other Norwegians. I am not afraid of Norwegians no longer having the majority in Norway. Ultimately, Chinese girls are as nice as Norwegians, or Americans for that matter. And I for one, am not afraid of the onslaught of Chinese that might come if we were to suddenly just open the borders, and retire the border patrol all together. In the mean time, the time might soon have come, within the next dacade or so, to at least remove the last travel and trade bariers between EU and the United States. Mr. President, would you consider, giving the idea some thought during the rest of your time in office? Being a lame duck, is not much of a future, but you could possibly still leave a legacy through foreign policy like your visit to Norway. Sincerely, Trygve Bauge, American (by hearth), in involuntary exile. trygveb@powertech.no Ps. To read more about the challenge, visit my web page, and look up the pages I posted in 1995. http://www.powertech.no/~trygveb/ Life-Extension Systems, the Norwegian Icebathing Assoc. & Action 88. To borrow a VHS presentation of my work, send $50 to Trygve Bauge c/o Aksjon 88, Pb. 59 Hovseter, 0705 Oslo, Norway,Ph 47-2214-8078 E-mail: trygveb@powertech.no http://www.powertech.no/~trygveb/ ----- Original Message ----- From: <LibertyTEK@aol.com> To: <sd-libchat@sdlp.org> Sent: Saturday, October 30, 1999 6:42 AM Subject: World unity? Open borders? Not yet -
>
> I've watched the exchange of mail regarding the URL I posted concerning
the
> foreign determination of the disposition of major portions of our sources
of
> protein, the use of our forests, of our land, the nature of our industry;
all
> things which make up what we call our standard of living.
> I'm glad we have a mix of pragmatists, dreamers, idealists and forward
> looking individuals in our midst, it always makes for good, serious
debates
> which may not settle or change anything but, at the least, keep one's
mental
> faculties churning; always a healthy activity.
> I have no objections to open borders and an eventual world community of
> tolerant, free people that is so intertwined economically, socially and
> racially that war becomes a war against ourselves, and therefore, less
> likely. I have friends in several countries and would be pleased to call
them
> my brethren.
> The question in my mind, concerns the timing and speed at which such a
truly
> world-changing event can occur.
>
> I liken our current situation to two ponds;
>
> The first, is small but deep, filled with water and bugs which I would
call
> "wealth."
> The second is a large shallow pond, with a few deep places and is located
a
> little lower on the hillside than the small one.
> The two are separated by a thin, somewhat porous dam.
> Both ponds are populated with fish, but the small pond has fewer than 5%
of
> the total.
> These five percent worked hard through most of their history and work hard
> today at finding new ways to catch bugs and larvae to survive and prosper.
> Through their creativity, they attract more bugs, channel to catch more
> rainwater and are always burrowing to increase the depth of their pond to
> produce more larvae.
> The other, larger pond, has the other 95% of the fish and for what ever
> reason, most of the fish there are hungry most of the time with the
exception
> of the few deeper areas where the fish work as hard as those in the small
> pond. The large pond has room for more depth but the inhabitants haven't
done
> what's necessary to channel more water into their pool.
> The situation in the big pool gets pretty desperate sometimes and a few
> ambitious fish successfully attack the dam and make the leap over the top
and
> into the smaller pool. The freshly arrived fish aren't as fussy about the
> work they do as the established population and work their tail fins off
and
> succeed in slopping a little of the water over the top of the dam and into
> the large pond below which benefits a few more of the fish still stuck in
the
> shallow areas.
> The fish in the deeper areas of the large pond have received past
assistance
> from the small pond, when they were in trouble, to give them a hand up,
and
> have now developed bugs of a different variety and regularly trade with
the
> small pond for some of its bugs and water although not as much as they
would
> like and some of them are hateful that they have not garnered as many bugs
> and as much water for their population as the small pond.
> Then some of the small pond fish get together and discuss the plight of
all
> the fish in the larger pond and start to slop some water over the side to
try
> to ease the problems of the large pond. It doesn't make hardly any
noticeable
> difference to the large pond since there are so damned many fish in need.
The
> small pond simply cannot give up enough water and larvae to help much
without
> damaging their own living standard by losing too much water and bugs.
>
> Mark here -
>
> Over time, the fish in the large pond are no longer satisfied with the
> slopped over and leaked through wealth of the small one. They become
jealous
> of the small pond's successes.
> They start howling (fish?) at the fish who are well off to stop catching
so
> much water, raising so many larvae and catching so many bugs so that they
> become more like them. To make sure that this happens, the unhappy fish
start
> to tell the wealthy fish how much of the small pond may be used for their
> survival claiming that the activities of the fish in the small pond is
> ruining the forest even though there was no evidence to which they could
> point to prove this assertion.
> But there were, among the fish in the small pond, some fish who had
already
> been gutted and had their spines removed, who, in the hope of receiving
the
> adulation of the other 95% of the fish, played along with the plan and
> proceeded to reduce the depth of the small pond by taking more of the bugs
> produced by hard work, and then throwing some of the bugs and water over
the
> dam and promising to stop channeling for more water.
> Because the other pond was so big and contained so many of the total fish,
it
> didn't make much difference in their lot but did make life much more
> difficult for the smaller pond.
>
> If the Libertarian open border policy was instantly instituted the
scenario
> above would be altered starting at "Mark here -";
>
> The narrow dam between the two ponds is suddenly breached:
> A lot of the water in the small pond runs out into the large pond and
spreads
> quickly, taking some of the fish with it. But that loss of fish doesn't
> matter because with the obstacle posed by the dam gone, a huge influx of
new
> fish makes its way into the small pond which is now really only a small
> extension of the large one.
> The new arrivals compete like crazy with the original fish to gain access
to
> all the bugs and water of which they had heard.
> Unfortunately the water is no longer all that deep and there are now way
too
> many fish for the remaining provisions; they find that they are not a
whole
> lot better off than they were before and the "native" fish start to notice
> hunger pretty often and reduced opportunity to raise larvae even when not
> interfered with by the bossy fish in the larger pond.
> Oh, the water which flowed out into the larger pond? Well, as much
difference
> as it made to the depth of the former small pond, it really wasn't enough
to
> increase the depth of the water or the prevalence of bugs in the large
one.
> Now we have a somewhat larger and slightly deeper pond than before but the
> original inhabitants of the former small pond are nearly as poor and
hungry
> as everyone else.
>
> I hope the premise of the parable is obvious; one world is a nice goal to
> strive toward but let's not open the dam until the water levels and number
of
> bugs are somewhat comparable. Besides, smart fish also don't jump into the
> shallow pond, stir up trouble and then airlift home; that is one habit we
> will have to break or we will be moving targets forever.
>
> This country started from a low baseline too, but, because of our
political
> system, hard work (yes, in sweatshops and with stoop labor too) and the
> peculiar mix and character of our early immigrants, we became a shining
> example to the world.
> We did not get our success as a gift from other countries but worked for
it.
> Why shouldn't others follow in our path and achieve their own? Isn't
success
> you have wrestled for personally far more meaningful and precious than
that
> which is handed to you?
> The best possible argument for patience in regard to open borders and a
> unified world, is north and south of our borders; we do not have a problem
> with leaky borders to the North because the differential between Canada
and
> the US is, while measurable, not that great; while to the South . . .
>
> Steve A.
EU or Western Europe on the other hand, does not pose any threat to the US welfare society, or vice versa. So, Mr. President, do you take the challenge? Sincerely, Trygve Bauge Ps. To those who respond to this message: Please send a carbon copy of your response to trygveb@powertech.no too, since I might not otherwise see your response. Thanks. Life-Extension Systems, the Norwegian Icebathing Assoc. & Action 88. To borrow a VHS presentation of my work, send $50 to Trygve Bauge c/o Aksjon 88, Pb. 59 Hovseter, 0705 Oslo, Norway,Ph 47-2214-8078 E-mail: trygveb@powertech.no http://www.powertech.no/~trygveb/