Re: Sociopaths (was Re: Reforming Education)

Clint O'Dell (
Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:11:16 MDT

Ok, I'm going to rip apart this diagnosis now.

> Antisocial Personality
> Disorder
> Diagnostic Features
> The essential feature of Antisocial
> Personality Disorder is a pervasive
> pattern of disregard for, and violation
> of, the rights of others that begins in
> childhood or early adolescence and
> continues into adulthood.

Disregard for peoples rights does not mean they have a disorder. It is possible they have decided that within their moral philosophy they don't have to or shouldn't have to have regard for others. It is not that they don't have the ability to, they chose not to. I've seen brain washing techniques used to persuade a so called sociopath into changing their morals. A very intellegent person will usualy recognize it as what it is, a brain washing technique and discredit everything the would be brain washer says.

> This pattern has also been referred to
> as psychopathy, sociopathy, or
> dyssocial personality disorder. Because
> deceit and manipulation are central
> features of Antisocial Personality
> Disorder, it may be especially helpful to
> integrate information acquired from
> systematic clinical assessment with
> information collected from collateral
> sources.

Deceit and manipulation is what parents (santa clause, tooth fairy, God), teachers (stars, grades, principles office), psychiatrists (shots, restraints, longer stay), and other groups/people do all the time. So far they are all classified under the central features of dyssocial personality disorder.
> For this diagnosis to be given, the
> individual must be at least age 18 years
> and must have had a history of some
> symptoms of Conduct Disorder before
> age 15 years.

These diagnoses are given as young as 13.

                            Conduct Disorder

> involves a repetitive and persistent
> pattern of behaviour in which the basic
> rights of others or major
> age-appropriate societal norms or rules
> are violated.
You slaughter yourslef when you use age-appropriate and norms.
Rather than rip those two terms alone apart (which is a complete waste of my time) I'll just point it out to you and let you do it yourself.
                            The specific behaviours

> characteristic of Conduct Disorder fall
> into one of four categories: aggression
> to people and animals, destruction of
> property, deceitfulness or theft, or
> serious violation of rules.
Serious violation of rules <smirk>. I'm picturing George
Washington, the sociopath, madly betraying his country, thus violating a few serious rules, to manipulate an army so that HE may live in a free country.

> The pattern of antisocial behaviour
> continues into adulthood. Individuals
> with Antisocial Personality Disorder fail
> to conform to social norms with respect
> to lawful behaviour.

Again I slaughter norm and again in rides George Washington.

                            They may

> repeatedly perform acts that are
> grounds for arrest (whether they are
> arrested or not), such as destroying
> property, harassing others, stealing, or

> pursuing illegal occupations.
Entraprenuers. Need I say more? Persons
> with this disorder disregard the wishes,
> rights, or feelings of others.
Depends on ones philosophy to include anothers feelings. They are
> frequently deceitful and manipulative in
> order to gain personal profit or
> pleasure, (e.g., to obtain money, sex,
> or power).
See above. They may repeatedly lie,
> use an alias, con others, or malinger.
Several sain reasons for that. A
> pattern of impulsivity may be
> manifested by a failure to plan ahead.
And how do you measure that? Ask them? If you say that then you
must be stupid. Never trust a patient or anyone to tell the truth when doing scientific research. Observe him/her? Yea, right. How do you know if they're actions are impulsive? You don't unless you monitor their brain while they "impulsivily" do something. And I havn't read to many reports about anyone doing that to place this diagnoses.

> Decisions are made on the spur of the
> moment, without forethought, and

1)This is usualy done for a couple of reasons. To get out of a stressful situation, they do have forethought (unless you can prove otherwise which you can't).

2)It's fun. Again they do have forethought.

> without consideration for the
> consequences to self or others; this
> may lead to sudden changes of jobs,
> residences, or relationships.

They do but at the time the benefit seems to out way the cost


> with Antisocial Personality Disorder
> tend to be irritable and aggressive and
> may repeatedly get into physical fights
> or commit acts of physical assault
> (including spouse beating or child
> beating).
I can think of several other reasons people are "irritable" and
aggressive. Especialy people who have been misdiagnosed with Antisocial Personality Disorder. What is social norm anyway? See above on ripping apart.
                            Aggressive acts that are

> required to defend oneself or someone
> else are not considered to be evidence
> for this item.
I have only one thing to say about this concerning diagnoses. Bull
shit. The doctors who diagnose this condition from aggressive acts don't normaly know or care why they are aggressive. Mostly it's defensive.
                            These individuals also

> display a reckless disregard for the
> safety of themselves or others.
Disregard is related to their philosophy (see above) This
> may be evidenced in their driving
> behaviour (recurrent speeding, driving
> while intoxicated, multiple accidents).
Uh, duh. If you want to get into the mind of a sociopath ask
about their philosophy. How hard is it to figure out. I'm mean, COME ON ALLREADY. It's not that hard to figure out.

> They may engage in sexual behaviour
> or substance use that has a high risk for
> harmful consequences.

See philosophy.

                            They may

> neglect or fail to care for a child in a
> way that puts the child in danger.
And what makes you think they should.
> Individuals with Antisocial Personality
> Disorder
There's that word social again right along with Disorder. Have you
figured out yet it's not a disorder but a difference in philosophy?
                            also tend to be consistently

> and extremely irresponsible.
I'm getting tired of enlightening everyone with my great wisdom.
Uh, what responsiblity? To who's point of view (philosophy again)

> Irresponsible work behaviour may be
> indicated by significant periods of
> unemployment despite available job
> opportunities, or by abandonment of
> several jobs without a realistic plan for
> getting another job.

Usualy perspective, is the "sociopath" aware of these availabilities, is your perspective distorted? Both are possible.

                            There may also be

> a pattern of repeated absences from
> work that are not explained by illness
> either in themselves or in their family.
> Financial irresponsibility is indicated by
> acts such as defaulting on debts, failing
> to provide child support, or failing to
> support other dependents on a regular
> basis. Individuals with Antisocial
> Personality Disorder show little
> remorse for the consequences of their
> acts. They may be indifferent to, or
> provide a superficial rationalization for,
> having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from
> someone (e.g., "life's unfair,' 'losers
> deserve to lose," or "he had it coming
> anyway"). These individuals may blame
> the victims for being foolish, helpless,
> or deserving their fate; they may
> minimize the harmful consequences of
> their actions; or they may simply
> indicate complete indifference. They
> generally fail to compensate or make
> amends for their behaviour. They may
> believe that everyone is out to "help
> number one" and that one should stop
> at nothing to avoid being pushed
> around.

I'm getting tired of commenting. I hope to have shown you that antisocial personality disorder is actualy not a disorder at all but merely a difference of philosophy. If you want to "treat" this you need to focus on his/her's philosophy. Find out why they believe the way they do and show your views, why you believe the way you do. Sociopathy is not a physical condition of ones brain but they may have a few of those too that makes it more difficult to process information.

Please note that by replying I am not in anyways saying that I have responsiblity or agree with my interpretation of a sociopaths point of view, I merely show you a new way of thinking.

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