Re: Skeptics Opinions Needed.

John Quinley (
Thu, 5 Aug 1999 13:14:34 -0600

This is a field that I have studied a great deal so I feel that I am qualified to answer this post.

-----Original Message-----
From: <>
To: <> Date: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 5:43 PM Subject: PSI: Skeptics Opinions Needed.

>I'm going on record now (and risking my humble reputation) by
>admitting that I've had several experiences which I have yet to
>explain within current scientific knowledge. This may be due
>not to any 'paranormal' phenomena, but my own ignorance
>of science itself. I'm *not* claiming nor do I wish to be labeled
>a psychic. Quite the opposite. Instead, I'm urging the more
>skeptically and scientifically inclined list members to scrutinize
>me report and offer their opionions.
>During my life, I have had numerous experience that could be
>labeled as clairvoyant, out-of-body-travel, and telepathy.
>However, these may not be accurate terms if what I experienced
>was instead an elaborate set of hallucinations. Therefore I have
>included below only those experiences I have yet been unable to
>rule out with that explanation.
>Case 1: (Summer '87)
>I had a dream in which I woke up only to realize that I was still
>dreaming. This 'lucid' dream became exhilarating. Since I often
>fly in my dreams I decided to start flying around the room. In
>this dream my room was dark, but there was still some ligh
>from the sun which had recently set. The dream felt unusually
>real. I continued to fly around the room and attempted to fly
>through the roof. It worked. Soon I was flying about 100 feet
>above my apartment complex. I flew to the other side of the
>complex. In the sky their was a crescent moon and Venus
>shining brightly. I started to smell something on a BBQ.
>I flew down and heard a conversation of the BBQ'ers that
>sounded like Arabic. It all seemed very real. Suddenly I
>awoke on my bed. This time I really did awaken. I ran to
>my roommate Don and told him of this incredibly vivid dream
>I just had. I asked him to follow me outside. It was indeed
>late dusk. Venus and the crescent moon were in the sky.
>I told my friend that if my dream was right there should
>be two Arabic guys cooking at the other side of the complex.
>So we both ran to the other side only to find the two Arabic guys
>cooking chicken at a the BBQ.

This sounds like you were napping around late-afternoon. OBE's are more common when one is napping or dozing, due to the fact that the person is unable to go into a full or deep sleep. What happens in an OBE is you remain conscious or, as in your case, very close to conscious, as your body goes to sleep. As your body drifts off into sleep, it releases a chemical that effectively paralyzes you so that you don't act out your dreams. Sometimes this malfuntions and people end up sleep-walking and so forth. Anyway, once you become conscious after your body had paralyzed you, you experience and OBE. You are not really out of your body. You are basically in a dream-state. But it feels much more real than a dream (in fact, it appears just as real as reality) due to the fact that you are living it with your conscious mind.

Whenever you decided to go flying, as in the above experience, basically you were giving commands to your sub-conscious mind. You appear to have been very fortunate in that many people who experience these types of events are not lucid enough to have any kind of control. You sub-conscious mind generated as accurate portrayal of your surroundings as possible. It, of course, has access to information that you might not have been aware of. It could have known that your Arabic neighbors were barbequing either due to the smell or due to you seeing them earlier but not really remembering or noticing.

>Case 2: (spring '95)
>Another lucid dream. I was flying around again although this time
>I was not in any place familiar. The scenery was beautiful - lots
>of rolling grassy hills with colorful flowers everywhere. It was
>sunny and balmy.. I flew over the plains of grass and flowers with
>exhilaration. I couldn't believe how real everything seemed.
>The smells were completely vivid and real. I saw a tree in the
>distance. It was immense. I flew up to it and I saw my friend
>Nathan sitting underneath it. He was sleeping. I tried very hard
>to awaken him. After a moment, his eyes began to open and he
>was delighted to see me hovering above him. I asked him to
>come with me and he fell asleep again. The dream ends.
>A few moments later I woke up. My friend Nathan had stayed
>the night and was sleeping on the couch. When he woke I
>started to tell him my dream, when I got to the tree part, he
>said "wait a second, this describes my dream. In my dream I
>was hanging out under this huge tree also surrounded by lots
>of flowers. I saw a bunch of birds in the sky. I focused on one
>bird and it kept getting bigger and closer. Then I realized
>it was you! I couldn't believe it. You laughed at me and told
>me to fly with you. That's the last thing I remember". When
>he finished his description, I broke down in tears. I was
>overwhelmed that somebody else experienced the same dream.
>A dream in which we both shared.

This seems to be like the same phenomena that is the cause of deja-vu experiences. Your friend might not have had the dream, but has had a similar dream in times past and filled in the details with what you were explaining (i.e. typical false-memory implantation). Whatever the case may be, remember that it is best for you to write down the experience, then ask him about any experience he might have had, without giving away any details of your experience (writing it down keeps YOU from generating a false memory). It is interesting, though, that during the time you had the dream, you were aware of both your friend spending the night and of him being asleep. I, personally, can't recall any dream of mine where I was asleep in the dream. But then again, perhaps this is a false non-memory.

John Quinley