In response to Gina and Emlyn's comment about God and death bed repentance

john grigg (
Wed, 14 Jul 1999 18:16:46 PDT

Hello all,

I just want to say that within Christian thought (and I have seen this in real life too) death bed repentance may not be the great way to "have your cake and eat it" that some think. There is the doctrine that the spirit of Christ does not always strive with people when they have repeatedly pushed away the promptings that they need to repent. They may very well reach the point of no return where they are so mired in sin and certain attitudes that they will no longer have the desire to repent even on their death bed. And as stated often people die suddenly and have no time to repent.

And repentance is more then a quick little prayer but a real letting go of old ways and attitudes that denotes real desire to change. God can see the real nature of our hearts. As a Latter-day Saint I believe that their are various degrees and levels in Heaven and that only those that really lived for God will get to dwell in the highest level with God and certainly not only lds people will be there; in fact many won't. We also believe that before birth we lived in Heaven with God as adult spirits where we developed our personalities and talents in a multitude of ways. I suppose many of you here spent all your time in the science section of the divine library! Mormons believe that only the most wicked and heinous will wind up in hell with the satan and his angels. Hitler and Stalin I am sure would have their accommodations there.

I realize there are many nonbelievers on this list but I am just sharing my beliefs with you. Do I know without any doubt that this is true; no I do not. Mormons believe that the spirit of God lets people know the truth of these things for themselves through the mind and the heart but this takes someone being willing to do their own experiment by faith, study and application. By this I have gained what I consider my belief in God and the afterlife.

And yet because I do not have a perfect knowledge of God I cling to this life that I know. I am angry at the unfairness of mortality in terms of the inequality regarding intelligence, beauty, health and wealth among the population. I want to see things straightened out here in this life and not just wait for the next. I feel the human lifespan is just too short and that cryonics may give me the extra time I want. Even as a nanobot filled immortal I will not go on forever; death will eventually claim me and uploaded copies of me as replacements holds no appeal to me.

So perhaps I hedge my bets. It makes me feel guilty to do so but I want my chance in life! I suffer from clinical depression (I take meds but no breakthrough yet), a.d.d., and worst of all learning disabilities that have stopped me so far from doing well in math and worst of all driving a car which is a huge frustration for me and cost me dearly professionally and with women. My father left my mother and I when I was a baby and I grew up without him. I still bear emotional scars from that despite being reunited over the phone with him. The damage is done and no apology has come. He was extremely handsome but I did not inherit that key trait that can make life so much more pleasant.

I attend a local LDS singles adult ward and find it interesting that despite all the talk of living by Christ-like principles of love and kindness the same ruthless mating game rituals goes on there as anywhere else. Good-looks and money count just as much though being a faithful mormon guy is part of the bargain too. I find the women friendlier in clubs and school dances then I do at the church dances.
A bishop(pastor) once explained it to me that the women are looking for mates so they are extremely particular. I recently went through an online lds personals site and was surprised by all the women who were very attractive, in their thirties and never married even though certainly society is changing in that people wait longer to marry which is generally good. I just wondered how many of these women were 'untouched' sexually since chastity is so emphasized in my church (my male sexual strategies are showing themselves!). It saddens me somewhat to think alot of people abstain from sex in their prime years(I am one who did) when they could have enjoyed their bodies and a partner so many times by making love over those years. But they do this to live with their conscience and belief system. I am not recommending promiscuity though since that can have it's own problems and heartaches. I suppose the answer for me would have been marrying in my mid-twenties to have a partner had I been ready for one at that stage.

So many more have had it worse then me I realize but then so many more have had it much better. I find myself sometimes criticized by people who are so blessed in comparison to me and have no right to talk. I want a brain free of the flaws mine has and a handsome body on par with my fathers. I want to be able to without agony learn math and to especially be able to drive a car. I realize I must simply do the best with the hand of cards life dealt me but I tend to dwell on the negative and give up in frustration and embarrassment.

I realize I have talked about these things before but they are dear to my heart. I wish I could attend the Extro but it looks like finances will not allow it this year so I will have to attend the one in 2000. I look forward to whatever thoughts any of you might have on my comments. I wish you all the best.


John Grigg

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