Re: ETHICS: reprogramming others, trials, justice (was Re: remorse, w
Sat, 12 Jul 1997 17:21:38 -0400 (EDT)

In a message dated 97-07-11 22:50:18 EDT, you write:

<< My
only guess is that there are more efficient ways to get energy and matter
to convert to mind than paving the universe. I do not have suggestions as
to what those are. It's just that after a billion years, it would seem
intelligence would discover some physics we do not have an inkling of now >>

So true...and for enquireing minds who want to know...and have a well
developed BS filter...there's a lot going on in the "overunity" and "cold
fusion" sector of the web right now....also the "Aether" is enjoying a
revival....and it all relates (more or less) to quantum mechanics.

In response to my statement:As the level of affluence goes up....the
birthrate goes down....
The only reason that the U.S.'s population is going up is
immigration....the"natives" are below ZPG. As is true in other
industrialized nations.

you said:

>>Irrelevant. We have to take care of our young.

Naww... we don't GOTTA do anything....there is a very large sector of our
population which is "Self Raised" so to speak....I seem to remember hearing
that white female illigitamate births is at 16% and rising...while that of
blacks is at 70% and holding stable...and all the dads are just wandering
around looking for more girls.

But that wasn't my point...I'm a parent...hell I'm a grandparent...and over
the several generations of which I am intimately size is sometime in the decernible pressure population pressure will
be less of a reason for expansion.

>>Human beings are a badmodel for the far future of intelligence.

And why are "Human beings a bad model"...I think we're doing pretty damn

Look at the other species can AFFORD to exhibit compassion.

Look at current research into other primates..gorillas, chimps...they're not
very nice people.

>Virtual reality maybe fun but it does not get much accomplished. You
>cannot explore new physics without a connection to the outside world. You
>also cannot avoid dangers. Those entities that concentrated their efforts
>on avoiding real threats would be more successful than those that divided
>their time between the real world and artificial worlds. Survival (of
>replicators) is the name of the game. If it doesn't help survival, it's
>useless (evolutionarily speaking).

au contrair.

There are several versions of "virtual reality" of which I am
"Augmented Reality" coupled with "Telepresence" would (and is..I'm sure) very
useful in the exploration of new physics..biology..astrophysics...etc.

And as far as threats and dangers?
"As I walk thru the valley of the shadow of death...I shall fear no
Because I'm the meanest SOB in the valley"

I'm sorry...It appears that you are fixated on classical pre-sentient,
pre-technological evolution...perhaps not such a good model
anymore....humanity is less and less subject to fact the time
will come..may already have come when we can direct our own
development...(hmmmm ....isn't there a group somewhere on the net that talks
about that a lot...?...things like Boundless Expansion..?)

Lets see if I can hit this at a different angle..

Remember Maslow? He of the hierachy of needs? (warmth,
food,..etc..etc...self actulazation)...we're talking about self actualization
here...if all my fundamental needs are seen too I can explore new
worlds...(for real or in cyberspace)...If a majority of a population feels
that way...the population will not increase so rapidly...may even stabilize
or decrease...

>You might also want to chose a better metaphor. I find "Expanding into
>Cyberspace at many hundred multiples of lightspeed..." to be so vague
(>using c to measure distance through ideaspace, where there is no light) as
>to be meaningless.

picky...picky...picky...but ok...I grant you that.

What I was trying to so ineloquently illustrate is the notion that with
really advanced telepresence into cyberspace a civilization might be more
inwardly focused...if all their material needs are taken care of by
technology...if they no longer even have any material needs to speak of
(uploaded )...then cyberspace would definitely be the thing. And is there a
limit as to how far cyberspace can expand? I can spend hours and hours just
surfing the net...and the net is still young..


(sitting in my the the Service Bay...In Little America