Loree Thomas wrote:
>
> --- Mike Lorrey <mlorrey@datamann.com> wrote:
> > c) the academies rejected my nomination not on any
> > grounds of my own
> > unfitness, but because my older brother had asthma
> > (in their health
> > forms, they ask "have you or any member of your
> > family ever had:". When
> > I disputed their rejection on that grounds, they
> > sent specs for one of
> > those treadmill tests, only requiring me to inhale a
> > specified chemical
> > before the test, which my doctor knew caused asthma
> > attacks in 99% of
> > the population. Thus, they rigged the test to
> > eliminate me as a
> > candidate.
>
> Wow... a genuine conspiracy. So why didn't you take
> legal action? Or did you? If so, what were the
> findings?
Its even better: my family pediatrician who knew of this asthmatic
reaction called up their medical people and exposed the rig. They said,
"fine, do the test without the inhalation." So we did, and I passed with
flying colors, and we submitted the results, whereupon they replied,"Oh
great you are OK, but we finished appointing the class this year, why
don't you try again next year?"
> > > > b) lost out on financial aid in college, which
> > was
> > > > biased to provide
> > > > more aid to people of the same economic level if
> > > > they were minorities.
> > >
> > > Did you get your education anyway... despite
> > losing
> > > out on financial aid? Do you think it's possible
> > that
> > > some of those black students might not have gotten
> > > their educations at all if they had lost out?
> >
> > My parents had to pay full boat for my education,
> > which I did not and
> > could not afford to finish due to the expenses of a
> > back injury. With
> > three other siblings, they could only afford to send
> > me for a year
> > unless I obtained financial aid.
>
> That wasn't a yes or no. Do you have a college degree
> or not?
I did not finish my college degree.
> I have 5 other siblings. I also have an AA degree
> which I paid for myself, no financial aid or help from
> my parents and one of my brothers has an BS in EE,
> also paid for by himself.
I suppose I could have moved elsewhere in the country from New England
(even public colleges charge $5k+ in tuition here). Oh, yeah, I did
that, and got defrauded of my GI Bill benefits when I went back to
school after leaving the Air Force. I was working three minimum wage
jobs at the time while going to school, with my wages barely paying my
rent and minimal food in Seattle, and certainly couldn't afford to go to
school otherwise, and the state wouldn't offer financial assistance to
an able bodied white male. I looked at doing the electricians
apprenticeship program, since I had been an electrician for three years
in the Air Force, but they didn't offer any advanced placement for prior
experience and only paid $7/hr to apprentices for the two years of the
program.
Then I got a chance to start a business with two other fellows,
designing and developing new energy efficient lighting products, and
said to myself,"Hmmm.... slave away at little pay or make decent money
doing what I like to do? Well.... DUH."
>
> > >
> > > > c) am constantly accused of being a
> > > > racist/sexist/'rich elite' simply
> > > > because I am a white male.
> > >
> > > I don't think it's simply because you are a white
> > > male... But more because you say things like "am
> > > constantly accused of being a racist/sexist/'rich
> > > elite' simply because I am a white male."
> > >
> > > Like I said, I was a white male... and I never got
> > > accused of being racist (or sexist, for that
> > matter).
> > > If you are constantly being accused of being
> > racist,
> > > maybe you should take a look at your words and
> > > actions. It isn't just because you are a white
> > male.
> >
> > Irrespective of my words and actions, which anyone
> > objective enough on
> > this list would understand are not racist, sexist,
> > and I have certainly
> > never been part of the 'rich elite'.
>
> But accusations of racism and sexism are based on
> words and actions (rich elite was thrown in by you...
> red herring). Even if you feel your words and actions
> aren't racist or sexist, some people DO feel they
> are... because as you say you are being constantly
> accused.
I suppose 'constantly' is a bit of an overstatement, except in relation
to the liberals on this list.
>
> People seem to be objective enough to recognize that I
> am neither racist or sexist, why do you think they
> can't be objective when dealing with you?
Because people of a liberal bent automatically assume that a fellow who
is adamantly pro gun rights and individual liberty must be an ignorant
red-necked neo-nazi KKK skinhead Aryan Nations nut-job, because they are
so blinded by their own hoplophobia and/or citified left wing
programming, as we have seen so evidently here on this list recently.
> > > > In my experience, the only lack of opportunity
> > that
> > > > blacks I've known have had has been produced by
> > > > their own memetic programming, and not by
> > > > the system. When you are programmed to expect
> > > > racism, that is exactly what you will get.
> > >
> > > Racism is caused by the people being discriminated
> > > against, simply becuase they believe it exists?
> > >
> > > You didn't really just say that, did you?
> >
> > No, that is NOT what I said, so stop putting words
> > in my mouth like you
> > folks usually do.
>
> "When you are programmed to expect racism, that is
> exactly what you will get"
>
> Seems pretty clear to me. Expectations of racism, on
> the part of the victims, is the cause of racism.
>
> In what way is my restatement wrong?
Because you made a logical fallacy to assume that the perceptions of
some explain the actions of all. My statement was merely illustrating
that a person who is programmed to distrust and expect hostility
generally acts in such a way that they generate that sort of behavior in
people, regardless of whether there is similar behavior toward others
that is completely unprovoked.
>
> > I have met my share of bigots.
>
> Me too.
>
> I said this before, let me say it again... I DO NOT
> think you would ever consciously commit a racist act.
>
> I DO think you make unintentionally racist remarks.
That is a possibility. It is also possible that I've generally become so
tired of dealing with the ignorance and prejudices of liberals (who
refuse to acknowledge that they are in fact ignorant and prejudiced)
toward myself and my opinions and that which I hold dear that I frankly
don't give a damn.
>
> > > Mike... I have no trouble at all believing you are
> > a
> > > good person who would never engage in overt acts
> > of
> > > discrimination... but you have deluded yourself if
> > you
> > > think that blacks bring it all on themselves...
> > and it
> > > is statements like that which result in you being
> > > called racist... it has nothing to do with the
> > color
> > > of your skin.
> >
> > When I was in basic training, every black fellow who
> > dropped out of
> > training did so claiming 'racism', despite our three
> > DI's being black
> > and hispanic and female, respectively. Those fellows
> > who stuck with it
> > laughed at such insinuations as cop outs.
>
> Hmmm... and yet I know many white males who worked
> their way through school, receiving their education by
> their own efforts rather than using grants or their
> parents and didn't complain about AA being reverse
> discrimination. In fact they laugh at the idea. It
> strikes them as a cop out.
Yes. But frankly, unless those individuals are working as strippers or
gigolos, or have some 'in' someplace to make a decent living, they are
either on financial aid of some sort, or have a sugar daddy. It is
impossible for a person without an education to get one without some
sort of assistance from some quarter. By specifically excepting white
males from the system of financial aid, racism against white males is
institutionalized.
Moreover, I NEVER said that racism alone prevented me from getting an
education. I broke my back in a skiing accident, which, because my
mother never notified the insurance company I was still on the family
insurance after turning 18, was not covered by insurance, thus I had to
drop out of WPI. Later when I left the USAF, I was defrauded of my GI
Bill benefits, which had nothing to do with racism.
> > A large amount of the poor opinion of blacks that I
> > have seen in whites
> > is that far too many blacks live down to the
> > stereotypes that whites
> > have, and thereby hurt all.
>
> A lot of the poor opinion of whites that I have seen
> in blacks is due to far too many whites engaging in
> actual discrimination, some subtle, some not so
> subtle. Some intentional, some unintentional.
You must accept the fact that unintentional discrimination will happen,
and is comitted by EVERYONE, white or black. Blacks get a pass on being
racist by the liberals.
>
> > I do not say that discrimination against blacks
> > doesn't exist. I have
> > fought against it myself,
>
> Good. Now maybe fight it IN yourself.
There is none in myself that is not present in everyone else. Mine is
illuminated because I am specifically a white male, I am part of the
only segment of the population that is not allowed to even
unintentionally have discriminatory behavior or opinions, while
discriminatory behavior by women and minorities is celebrated as
'diversity'.
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Fri Oct 12 2001 - 14:40:05 MDT