RE: Heresy

Date: Tue Aug 07 2001 - 13:58:00 MDT

Aina & Bones wrote:

>Is Extropianism mainly for American's? How many Europeans are on this
list and how much, if any, european philosophy is in your

If you have been on this list for years, how come you ask this question?

[The transhumanist philosophy known as Extropy, is a worldwide philosophy.
The number of Europeans on the list is large, albeit this number is only a list number and does not represent the global extropian philosophical, many of which are not on this list.]

>How will the transhumanist movement deal with people's fears: the
pessimism/realism that experience engenders? Will technology really
change how people are or will people have to do that for themselves?<

Please read the many articles written on this subject, or refer to or We deal with people's fears by paying attention to the worldwide social climate. Rather than avoiding such fears, we carefully acknowledge that there are indeed many concerns across the board of scientific and technological advances that do affect humankind. Many concerns are also held by transhumanists and it is only beneficial to us to address them. Lastly, technology has and will continue to change how people communicate which affects all aspects of our lives.

>The degree of optimism on this list concerning the future is
definitely infectious and I'd really love it to be as e.g.. Mr.
Broderick envisions but People have milked the meme concerning the
power of science to improve the human condition to death.<

Transhumanist ideas are based in optimism, as presented early on. Extropian ideas are based on practical optimism. What good is a philosophy that is based on pessimism in steering a healthy and conscientious future? What is essential, however, is critical thinking - on the stabilizing structures of the extropian philosophy.

There are a number of powerful disciplines that are integral to our future. Since, surely, is essential, as well as technology, aesthetics, psychology, engineering, medicine, economics, etc. If not science, what other meme to overcome the limits of our human condition? Certainly, positive thinking is a powerful practice, but without the applying such to a specific goal and actuating it, the thought passes along with the thousands of thoughts we have daily.

>The egg heads (no offense intended) have been saying that technology
will solve this and that and remove this and that for centuries now.
Technology has indeed developed the cures for many diseases and
increased crop harvests etc. but most people don't get the benefit of

Most people do get the benefits of technology. By your statement, it seems apparent your research in this regard is sketchy.

>Will what most people get out of a time and technology that can
produce diamond houses cheaply be a diamond bullet in the head? If not

I don't understand this question.

>Will Transhumanism become a sort of super technocratic society in
which technologists develop technology only for themselves or can
others join? Will it be the third word that matches: aristocracy,
racism.......... transhumanism?<

Of course not. Somewhere you must have picked up a very inaccurate impression of transhumanity. I can, however, understand why there is concern about any culture - even spiritual, religious or political cultures. Again, please read more books and essays accessible on the Web.

>After all this biotech superman thing is basically a child of National
Socialism. Sure, now one can in theory claim that with gene
manipulation even defectives CAN be healed. WILL they be healed?< (snip)

>Over the time (years) that I have been a member of this list I have,
from time to time, noticed what I (perhaps wrongly) interpret to be
disdain for poor/uneducated/less intelligent people in many postings
so I wonder Will everybody get a better body or will there be a races
of super humans and slave race that serve them?<

Generality based on several posters' lack of intelligence.

>What is to stop Transhumanism from becoming the scientific arm of
future dictatorships?<

Again, please understand what the Extropian philosophy and transhumanist thinking are about. You clearly has created a fictional vision based on factoids. If such a dictatorship happened, it could not be at the hand or void of transhumanity because such is the anthesis of transhumanism.


>Is or will Transhumanism be nothing more than intellectual confusion,
moral imbecility, and willful ugliness elaborated into a
self-conscious ideology: the worship of wealth, power, novelty and
machinery? Will it become the ultimate expression of what many call a
culture less and materialist America: a sort of burger and coke

Again, you are shooting in the dark.

>Must Transhumanism demand spiritual pathology. Obviously not since Mr.
Broderick seems to allow for something else, as it were, but how many
transhumans can make allowances for that which they cannot see?<

>For me the ends justify the means but it seems that in Transhumanism
the means is the end. Is this a fair judgment?<


>There are those who say that Libertarians and individualists are most
likely to be solely concerned with their own egotistical and
Narcissistic gratification. Since there are a few here on the list I
ask would you refute this claim and how/why?<

I'm an individualist, so I'll answer your question from that stance. I am first interested in my own health and well being. Second, I am interested in human and transhumankind. It has nothing to with egotism, but everything to do with consciousness.

>How would a Transhumanist egalitarian/collectivist effort express
itself? Would they go for a Borg type society as in Star Trekk?<

I don't watch Star Trekk.

>Why not find ways of extending the use of our already existing brains
instead of making new ones? If the mind can work outside of the human
body why go for any form of containment at all? Is it possible to
exist without limits?<

Isn't think occurring today? Humans have been actively attempting to extend their mental capabilities for eons.

>Since our instincts and emotions are our driving forces if we insulate
ourselves from them or get rid of them what will our motivating force

There is no desire to get ride of instincts and emotions since I have been a transhuman. In fact, the desire to improve our senses, instincts and emotions has been a very important factor of transhumanity. If anyone wants to delete same from the idea-pool of transhumanity, I think they are not thinking correctly about the future. This is not to say that instincts and emotions may evolve into other mechanisms for communication and expression, which is entirely plausible.

>Are people in general in greater danger of being mistreated by
transhumans/extropians than, white people are of being mistreated by

There is no need for anyone to be concerned about the Extropian philosophy or transhumanity intentionally mistreating anyone. If an individual has a propensity for mistreating others, it is that person's own mental instability or disease causing the problem, not his or her philosophical or ideological affiliation.

>In attempting to become more than human will we become less?<

No. We will become more.

>Don't get me wrong. I'm not against science and technology. I'd
install a bionic leg today if I could -_- It's just that I have lived
a lot of my life in what you would call primitive circumstances and
have taken a long time to learn about all the different stuff you guys
talk about here.<

Well, this is reassuring. Now how about a mind-upgrade? -:)

>In reading up I have found questions which have bothered me but I did
not want to trouble you all with my lack of knowledge/understanding.
However since some people on this list seriously wanted to discuss
whether or not white people are nicer than black people I figured that
my questions won't be the most stupid ever brought up on the list.<

Pleasantries, agreeability, and respectability among people have less to do with race than upbringing and behavior conditioning. People are generally nice if they feel good about themselves, and mistreat others if they think lowly about themselves. Unless and until we may show our emotions through our skin color - changing the tone from mulatto to red for anger; white to blue for calm; blue to black for allure, skin color is irrelevant.

>So, as the progress of technology fuels its own acceleration and
rushes us into the future at exponential speed will we vanish up our
own anuses?<

Entering the posterior opening of the alimentary canal can be achieved in many ways. The surest way today is brain-wasting which is deliberate and its stench can be found, interestingly enough, in email!

Natasha Vita-More

Mail2Web - Check your email from the web at .

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