Olga writes
> > > Remember - whites profited from UNPAID slave labor for hundreds of
years.
> > When a tourist goes to visit the White House, it is rarely mentioned -
if at
> > all - that it was built with unpaid slave labor. How shameful - both
this
> > historic fact, and the fact that not many people are aware of this.
From: "Lee Corbin" <lcorbin@tsoft.com>
> You are quite wrong. I don't think I've ever met anyone so
> ignorant of history as to be unaware of slavery.
You never met anyone so ignorant of history? Moi? Lee, dearest, do you
remember just a couple of days ago, when you were telling me that "It really
would be best for all concerned to avoid personal references like this.
Surely, with practice, we can all learn to make our points without venturing
dangerously close to the ad hominem."
But then, I suppose, you literally meant "ad hominem" ... (i.e., it's always
open season on "ad feminem"?)
You also wrote about the importance of "confin[ing] oneself to careful
argument."
And you didn't do that, either. Dear, oh dear - what am I going to do with
you?
You wrote: It's usually
> put forth as the reason that the Civil War was fought, "to free
> the slaves". Abraham Lincoln is probably best known "for freeing
> the slaves." Okay :-) maybe you didn't hear this growing up
> because you weren't here.
I never mentioned Abraham Lincoln, and as a matter of fact I've read a bit
on the Civil War. I did say I am not a native speaker, but I have attended
U.S. schools (except for the first few school years).
> > If Thomas Sowell says that racism doesn't exist in the U.S.,
> > he's lying ... if that's what he says ...).
> By no means does he say such a thing!
Lee, I didn't say Sowell says such a thing. That's why I wrote the word
"IF" up there a couple of times. I read a few of Sowell's articles few
years ago, and I wasn't impressed with his one-sided view of things. Maybe
I should still keep checking to see what Sowell writes from time to time
(just for the sake of getting a different perspective). And if you would be
interested in my guy, Randall Robinson, take a look at his books: The Debt;
and Defending the Spirit. I doubt you will, but I just thought I'd throw
that in, just in case you may be interested.
No one denies that racism
> exists. But some people call racist the belief that not all groups
> are exactly equal to all other groups in every way ...
I also call racist the tendency of white people not to want to take any
responsibility for the egregious crimes against blacks in the USA. If
blacks had had the same opportunities as whites, without those generations
upon generations of families which were torn from each other at will
(shifted about and sold to the highest bidder), used as sex slaves, denied
education, self-determination, dignity and personhood - only to be shunned
and excluded after the end of slavery for several more generations ... if
you don't think that that may just be one of the contributing reasons why
"not all groups are exactly equal to all other groups in every way ..."
you're right. But who's responsible for this state of affairs? And think
about this: if whites had gone through what blacks had to go through for
those hundreds of years, our "pecking" order may have been in reverse order
at this stage of the game.
, or that people
> have a built-in (but not necessarily strong) preference for people
> that resemble themselves.
If it's not necessarily strong, then it would practically be nonexistent IMO
if we lived in a society that valued diversity and equality. For the
record, I kind of go along with the "opposites attract" school, myself.
> > There seems to be so much concern about a little tax money
> > going to undeserving, lazy, good-for-nothin's among some of
> > you.
> Some people have said that, not me. I just don't want to make
> a bad situation worse. Do you appreciate that welfare actively
> makes some bad situations worse?
Yes, I do. But first, let's be specific. There were (and are) different
kinds of welfare. Aid to people with disabilities. Aid to mothers with
dependent children. I believe you all refer to the latter, usually, when
you speak of "welfare." I think welfare which provided mothers with just
subsistence level income has contributed to making some bad situations
worse, yes. If the payments were a bit more generous, their kids may have
been better off, eaten better, gone to better schools - and as a result
there may have been a few more escapees from the cycle of poverty. When I
was young and idealistic I worked with welfare mothers in Chicago at one
time. Most of them were around my age (20, at the time), and were mature
and responsible beyond their years. But they'd never been out of Chicago,
hardly ever out of their neighborhood, in fact, did not know of any other
way to live - it was the only life they knew. And they were world weary at
an early age, before becoming wordly wise. Their subsistence income
provided special "extras" - like "extra" bus fare to go to the doctor, but
in order to get that extra dollar or whatever, they would need to go to the
welfare office, wait for hours (often, with a kid or two in tow), fill out
forms, and hope for the best. I observed them for the year I worked in
Chicago, and came away inspired by them - their generosity (I was often
treated to good Southern home cooking), their love for their children, their
sociability, their sense of humor and their ability to have a little fun -
which kept them going amidst the chaos of their lives. Often, when their
children started school, the mothers would get jobs (and had to leave the
kids at home to fend for themselves - part of the problem = no day care
centers).
One thing you never responded to, Lee, and that was my quip about George W.
Bush. Even though I was being sarcastic, it was still a serious question.
I read loud and clear that you are opposed to affirmative action. But, you
see, we have affirmative action for white people (that's what I meant to
imply when I said that George W. Bush is an Affirmative Action Baby
("AAB")). Why aren't you opposed to affirmative action for white people?
Did George W. Bush get into the White House on his own merit? Or is he
(gasp ... groan ... slap on forehead!) an ... AAB?
Later,
Olga
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Fri Oct 12 2001 - 14:39:58 MDT