>> > What is all this tripe about those who want your vote?
>
>Incidentally, another question for all the USAnians; has there
>ever been an American presidential election where a
>candidate has won on the absolute count of popular votes,
>but has lost because of the way those votes were divided in
>the electoral college?
There have been 4 US elections in which the system produced results that
were not as transparent as the founders might have hoped.
The following is based on info in the book _After the People Vote_,
which has a nice summary of the history. Published by American
Enterprise Institute. A nice, useful book whether or not you agree with
AEI's conservative views or the book's pro-Electoral College views.
< http://www.aei.org/shop1/shops/1/a-c.htm >
Year Candidates Party
1888 Benjamin Harrison Republican 233 electoral votes
Grover Cleveland Democrat 168 electoral votes
This is the only example of a truly "undemocratic" result, since
Cleveland won the popular vote (by a whisker). Oddly, it is also the
case that occasioned the least carping. The choice of Harrison was
accepted with reasonable grace by most people, including Cleveland (who
won handily four years later), and life went on as usual. Presumably
there would be more carping nowadays.
1876 Rutherford B. Hayes Republican
Samuel J. Tilden Democrat
Tilden won the popular vote, and would have won the electoral vote too
except for some pretty ruthless and corrupt scheming on the part of the
Radical Republicans. In the end, they managed to bribe and/or threaten
a few carpetbagger Republican governors in the South -- recall that this
was only 11 years after the end of the Civil War -- into submitting
"revised" election returns. This created a constitutional crisis,
because there was no procedure for deciding which returns (and thus
which electors) to accept, making it impossible to hold an electoral
vote that would be accepted as legitimate by most people.
The House and Senate were controlled by different parties, and could not
reach a negotiated settlement. A 15-member commission was appointed to
examine the credentials of the disputed electors. It started out with 7
Democrats, 7 Republicans and 1 independent (a Supreme Court Justice).
The Republicans found an ingenious way to eliminate the independent --
they arranged to get him elected to the Senate by the legislature of his
state. He was succeeded by a new Justice who was a Republican, and the
commission votes followed straight party lines 8-7 for Hayes, who won
the electoral vote. Needless to say, this outraged the Democratic
South, where the populace refused to accept the result; they finally did
agree to accept it, but only at a hefty price: the withdrawal of the
carpetbag administrations and the end of Reconstruction.
1824 John Quincy Adams 84 electoral votes, 30.0% of popular vote
Andrew Jackson 99 electoral votes, 44.3% of popular vote
William H. Crawford 41 electoral votes, 13.2% of popular vote
Henry Clay 39 electoral votes, 12.5% of popular vote
Since 131 electoral votes were needed for a majority, the election ended
up in the House of Representatives. Most members of the House favored
Henry Clay (Speaker of the House), but the Constitution limited them to
considering only the three top electoral contenders (Twelfth Amendment).
After some classic smoke-filled room politics, Adams was chosen.
Jackson was understandably peeved; popular resentment over the result
contributed to his decisive victory four years later.
1800 Thomas Jefferson Democratic Republican 73 electoral votes
Aaron Burr Democratic Republican 73 electoral votes
John Adams Federalist 65 electoral votes
Charles Pinckney Federalist 64 electoral votes
The rule at the time was that the winner of the electoral vote became
President, and the runner-up became Vice President. The intention of
the "doubling up" above was to permit one party to hold both offices.
Things went seriously awry. Jefferson and Burr ended up in a tie, so
the Constitutional rule could not be applied. Neither candidate would
consent to taking second place, so the election went to the House of
Representatives, which was controlled by the Federalists.
The Federalists dearly wanted to overturn the electoral vote entirely
and choose the Adams-Pinckney ticket [this is before the Twelfth
Amendment], but were prevented from doing so despite their House
majority because of another Constitutional rule: the House had to vote
by state, one state one vote. The House votes also ended in ties, and
no amount of wheeling and dealing seemed able to break the deadlock.
Thomas Jefferson was finally selected on the 36th ballot, and Aaron Burr
became VP, after personal intervention by the Federalist Alexander
Hamilton (of all people).
The Twelfth Amendment was adopted almost immediately to prevent such an
occurrence in the future. It required separate votes for Pres and VP.
**********
Another thing that some might find interesting is testimony submitted
recently to the House Judiciary Committee in the matter of a couple of
proposals to amend the Constitution to abolish the Electoral College.
< http://www.house.gov/judiciary/222311.htm > for a list of witnesses and
separate presentations of testimony. Panel 1 has 2 witnesses, both
supporting abolition. Panel 2 has 4 witnesses, 1 supporting abolition
and 3 opposing it. All presenters are articulate exponents of the
positions they represent, and together they give a pretty clear picture
of what the best arguments are on each side.
< http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/judiciary/hju57219.000/hju57219_0f.htm >
for a transcript, if you want all of the testimony in a single document.
john k [proud to live in a country with a Fortean election system]
--
Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA) < fortean1@frontiernet.net >
Alternate: < terry_colvin@hotmail.com >
Home Page: < http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/8958/index.html >
Sites: Fortean Times * Northwest Mysteries * Mystic's Cyberpage *
TLCB * U.S. Message Text Formatting (USMTF) Program
------------
Member: Thailand-Laos-Cambodia Brotherhood (TLCB) Mailing List
TLCB Web Site: < http://www.tlc-brotherhood.org >[Allies, CIA/NSA,
and Vietnam veterans welcome]
Southeast Asia (SEA) service:
Vietnam - Theater Telecommunications Center/HHC, 1st Aviation Brigade
(Jan 71 - Aug 72)
Thailand/Laos
- Telecommunications Center/U.S. Army Support Thailand
(USARSUPTHAI), Camp Samae San (Jan 73 - Aug 73)
- Special Security/Strategic Communications - Thailand
(STRATCOM - Thailand), Phu Mu (Pig Mountain) Signal Site
(Aug 73 - Jan 74)
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Mon Oct 02 2000 - 17:37:31 MDT