Re: Computing the Ineffable [was Re: OT: Quantum Computing -- NOT]

From: Ken Clements (
Date: Mon Aug 14 2000 - 17:29:49 MDT

Franklin Wayne Poley wrote:

> >A great deal of discussion of this topic has happened on this list over the
> last four years. If you
> >start looking around in the archives at
> Well I'm all for "giving the devil his due" but I couldn't use the search
> engine on Lucifer's web site. My regards to the Old Boy anyway.

Push the button that lets you view by subject, and then use the "find on page"
facility of your browser to search for the usual key words or phrases, such as
"free will," "mind," "ineffabel" etc.

> Ahhh Grasshopper:
> Dualist and Monist-subjectivist philosophies constitute metaphysics IMO. I
> also think we can substitute "general scientific theories" for these names,
> going by Runes Dictionary of Philosophy and its definition of philosophy as
> "the most general science".
> So these two theories posit that in theory one can hold numbers and their
> calculations in mind by "mentalist" methods, without recourse to physical
> computing. I am then the thinker and not the thought and always will be so.
> A thought can be defined physically as is done in AI. The thinker is
> metaphysical and always has the capacity to form thoughts at a level higher
> than the physical.

Well, I must say that it is nostalgic to be back on the "Grasshopper" side; it
makes me feel young and naive again. Though I endeavor to maintain what, in the
martial arts, is called "Beginner's Mind," it is quite difficult to find the
patience to, once again, wade through mountains of non-falsifiable
speculations. You assert that you are a thinker, and that you are thinking
thoughts, but you cannot provide me with any proof. I find it just as
reasonable that your thoughts (memes) are thinking you, and in the process are
providing a strong illusion that there is a 'you' in there. These memes are
part and parcel of all the self propagating patterns that make up the Universe,
all one thing, all one level.


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