Re: spiritual hyperspace

From: Dana Hedberg (
Date: Mon Jul 17 2000 - 17:00:58 MDT

altamira wrote:
> > >
> > Ah. Well, I thought I would ask, because if you were a believer in Gaea
> > Theory, then your use of the word spiritual to mean a 'connection' with
> > that entity, I would capitulate and agree your usage is appropriate.
> But in the Gaea Theory, the term Gaea would refer to a specific, bounded
> entity, not "surroundings" or "environment."
I would argue that my usage of environment as an 'entity' is strongly
suggestive of Gaea Theory. While not a complete one to one mapping, I
thought that perhaps I could winnow down our discussion to a belief that
could possibly account for an appropriate use of the word spiritual by
sort of jumping ahead to see if you subscribed to any of that belief.

> > Cause and effect link? Hmmm. I'm trying to see what you mean by this
> > given the example you posted a while back. When you released the coyote,
> > that was the cause which generated the effect of being able to commune
> > with it?
> The cause of the communication which occurred between me and the coyote
> could have been some as yet unidentified property of consciousness.
So, you are certain that some kind of communication took place? Was this
the main factor for your 'spiritual' feelings, or what is it a
combination of things? Hmm. I think I'm asking you questions that you
already stated you weren't sure you could answer. If so, feel free to
dismiss them, unless you have recently garnered some insights into this.

I've found, more often than not, that the research done on animal/human
communication is dubious at best and outright ridiculous at worst.
Mostly due to the starting assumptions, but political and ideological
agendas also contribute to the poor methodologies used in these programs
of research. I'd be interested if you've come across any studies that
you think are well done.

> >
> > Interesting. Why not?
> Why not consider a feeling as an explanation? Because a feeling is not an
> explanation. If you equate feelings with explanations you're throwing away
> more than just precision in language. To explain (according to my
> dictionary) is to show logical development or relationships. To confuse this
> with a feeling or hunch would probably be fatal to me within a short time,
> since I work with dangerous stuff like electricity and chainsaws, and depend
> on explanations of how plants grow and which wild plants are edible and so
> forth in oder to eat.
Of course, where solid descriptions exist, established protocol has been
generated, and a deep understanding is a priori, then feelings would
appear only to muddy the waters. It is definitely true that you should
go with what you understand and can explain when dealing with
saw-toothed machines or tendrils of superhot light. But when you are
talking about something that is difficult to describe, there doesn't
appear to be any priors for help in relating, and what you feel is most
assuredly consigned to the realm of emotion and feelings, giving such an
answer is acceptable as a *first* attempt. I don't advocate leaving it
at the level of, "Well, it's just how I feel.". I always ask the
question, "Why?", which I've done here. However, I'm quite prepared to
accept an answer in the short term that is merely instinctual when
dealing with matters that appear to beyond easy explanation. Like I said
before, it should be revisited, but perhaps after some time has passed
and your ability to describe with understandable language is better.

> Also, one of the definitions is an appeal to higher
> > emotions or an aesthetic sense, which definitely gets across the feeling
> > I believe you are describing.
> It's true that I experienced feelings in connection with the coyote. These
> feelings included surprise (to find the coyote in the fence), sorrow (that
> the coyote had gotten her leg caught), happpiness (that she was still able
> to run after I got her leg free), curiosity ("Gee, I wonder how this coyote
> is able to understand that I'm trying to help her"), and what you might call
> love, in that I felt a kinship to the coyote, as one living thing to
> another. Maybe this last is what you mean by higher emotion?
Actually, it was in reference to your feeling of 'spiritual'. That's
what I thought this whole conversation was about. Did I miss something,
or give you the wrong impression about what it was I was trying to
discern? Although, in this more detailed description I will tentatively
say yes.

Have you ever felt that particular emotion/feeling with humans?

> Bonnie


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