Re: Ban on GUN posts RE: Greg Burch: Time to Act

Harvey Newstrom (
Wed, 16 Jun 1999 14:28:03 -0400

Why do I always play devil's advocate? I agree with these sentiments, etc.... but:
Whenever a previous subject would get banned and the poster would complain, everybody would jump on the poster and say: ExI owns the List. They can do anything they want. Banning you is not censorship. You are free to go elsewhere to discuss your topic. Freedom of Speech does not mean the ExI has to pay for and support your speech, and does not give you the right to speak on any topic in any forum. Go to another List, or start your own. People even jumped on one poster who left the list because of this ban.

Why do we react differently when it is "our" topic getting banned?

Forgive me for the coming rant: I am really getting depressed to discover that everybody's principals (on all sides!) are flexible and fluid. They tend to lean toward whatever selfish motive serves at the moment. As an elder member of this list, I can (sadly) say that ExI has a history of announcing one thing and then doing something different. I also think that most of the posters on this subject have acted illogically and always twisted things toward their point of view. ExI ignored the problem instead of tackling it. Most of the older list members have left.

The list has existed for 10 years. Most of its grandiose plans have not materialized. In fact, we seem to be going backwards in time. The newsletter has transformed into an ill-kept web page. The Node-net idea has not been updated on the web page, and as near as I can tell has not progressed since the original announcement. All the work on private list software has stopped, and we are now to the point that off-the-shelf commercial software runs the list, and even that can't be configured to work correctly. We have abandoned our original ideas of an anarchy list owned by no one, our ideas of a self-governing forum. None of the extropian ideals apply to this list itself. Even the Extropian Principals are rewritten such that many extropians no longer agree with the new versions.

This is a movement with no where to go. Everybody is talking about the future, but no one is doing anything about it. All the people who are really active are too busy to read this list. Even Max is too busy to participate or even handle the big ban announcement itself.

Sorry for the rant, but it's been 10 years, and nothing has changed. Ten years with no progress is usually about my limit to leave a "movement" and look for something that works.

Harvey Newstrom <mailto://> <>
Author, Consultant, Engineer, Legal Hacker, Researcher, Scientist.

----- Original Message -----
From: Michael S. Lorrey <>
To: <>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 11:33 am
Subject: Re: Ban on GUN posts RE: Greg Burch: Time to Act

> "O'Regan, Emlyn" wrote:
> > Excellent, yes, time to box some ears. I think that the following rule
> > should also be strictly followed:
> >
> > RULE - Entirely ignore all content in any posts refering to guns or even
> > mentioning GUN in the subject, which have been received since the
> > of the moratorium, and unsubscribe their postors.
> Ah, the Holy War has begun. Inquisitors, sharpen your swords, and get
ready to
> cut some tongues out. This is EXACTLY the behavior that anyone who claims
to be
> extropic or an extropian (big or little E) should be opposed to at any
cost. As
> said by some very wise men, freedom of speech is only really free if the
> objectionable speech is protected, not just that which is acceptable to
> norm.
> >
> >
> > Emlyn
> > (go directly to tumbolia, do not pass go, do not collect $200)
> Go directly to Aushwitz, do not avoid Kristallnacht, do not collect civil
> rights.
> --
> Michael S. Lorrey
> Owner, Lorrey Systems
> ArtLocate.Com
> Director, Grafton County Fish & Game Assoc.
> Member, Extropy Institute
> Member, National Rifle Association
> "Live Free or Die, Death is not the Worst of Evils."
> - General John Stark