I am glad to see that this list supports hateful people. I saw the same thing happening on Genius-L, and although in that case I had no sympathy for the person being attacked, I think Mr. Musick could possibly have things to say. I agree that the way he has been handled on here has been less than delicate, and you have asked for any condescencion he has dropped on your shoulders. This list was suggested to me because of the high amount of intelligence it boasted, but if I have to sift through so much insecure name-calling and threats (libel is more evil than condescencion), and I'm insulted to think that the future thinkers of our world are wrapped in silly squables. You say he's picking fights? You're not doing anything to stop them. I already feel used, because this is the third post I have given today in response to the attacks on David. Leave it alone and get back to constructive posting.
By the way, I don't think Ayn Rand is the end-all know-all of productive transhumanist thought. Just because someone suggests a book to me doesn't mean I'm going to read it, and after all, Jocelyn's suggestion that if he doesn't read those books, he isn't worth taling to, is so completely insulting and condescending, I think you're yelling at the wrong person...
Pope Arhat Al-Hazred Mateed XXIII
From: Michael S. Lorrey [mailto:email@example.com] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 1999 8:25 AM
Subject: Re: META: What did I do wrong?
Jonathan Reeves wrote:
> Jocelyn Brown wrote:
> > FWIW, you haven't offended me a bit. I don't respond to your statements
> > because you don't respond to counterpoints. Based on that, debate is
> > impossible. Besides, all the points you raised are answered in complete
> > eloquence in both "The Fountainhead" and "Atlas Shrugged." If you
> > read these books, I suggest you do. If you have, and you still feel the
> > you do, then once again debate is pointless.
> Debate is also impossible if someone merely tells you to read one of their
favourite books evry time you raise a point they disagree with.
Those aren't just 'their favorite books' but are also on the Extropians suggested reading list, and are on the suggested reading list of most every libertarian around.
> > As to why you have offended so many, I can only proffer my opinion. You
> > espouse ideas such as negation of private property and the importance of
> > society over the individual. To many of us who are on this list, those
> > concepts are immoral and ultimately evil. It is the same thing as a Jew
> > getting offended at someone advocating the Holocaust. The ideas of
> > objectivism, enlightened self-interest, and the importance of private
> > ownership of poverty are the foundation upon which we live our lives and
> > seek to influence the future. If you seek to influence the future in
> > directions, you cannot expect anything other than for us to combat you
> > every turn.
> Immoral ? Ultimately evil ?
> This is a discussion forum for transhuman ideas. I was of the belief that
it was intended for debate between open minded intelligent people, willing to contemplate someone elses point of view without dismissing it out of hand because it doesnt happen to agree with their particular world view.
How many times does an idiot have to jump off of a building to learn that gravity makes you fall? If some idiot spews that he thinks it would be a good idea if everyone jumped off buildings, I would be mighty worried if at least a couple dozen people on a list of 300 didn't tell him he was an idiot.
Even on the most rationally open minded mail list, there comes a point where somethings are commonly accepted to be just stupid, maybe even evil, ideas. Mr. Musick does not have the luxury of being a newbie to this list. He resubscribed, even, after knowing for several years exactly what sort of people subscribe to this list. To me, his affected sense of blissful naivete and condescention is personally insulting, while his admitted glee in 'pushing other peoples' buttons I find merely rude and obnoxious. If he actually beleives many of the things he spews here, he is, in fact, IMHO, an evil person. If he does not beleive those things, but is merely trying to pick fights and be manipulative, its obvious he needs the shelter of geographical separation and relative anonymity that the list provides to protect him from people he would not dare to do these things to in person. He's likely to get his nose broken if he tried playing his games in real life.