Re: [Fwd: Re: Matrix Shmatrix]

Dwayne (
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:40:58 +1000 wrote:

> I thought I'd shove in, as you no doubt wished ( |-> )

Um, no, I'm always surprised when you jump in.

I send it to you for your edification.

> I don't care if you publish this or not.


> > 1) Most VR will not be used for role playing.
> How does he know ?
> I'll tell you how: he doesn't.

Well, of course.

> Also, define 'role playing' once you have VR in the picture.

Um, hmm, this is a very good point.

VERY good.

> > 2) Most role playing will not be faithful simulations of history.
> There were lots of doubts expressed in this film about
> how 'faithful' the 'simulation' was.

The other side is why go to ENORMOUS lengths to recreate history when it is FAR easier to build an environment from the ground up?

But the matrix is a special case, the recreation made sense.

> Trouble with VR is, it immediately makes lots of
> ordinary words become extremely loaded, among these:
> faithful
> simulation
> history


> > 3) Most history simulation role playing VR will not be done by
> > amnesiacs who honestly don't remember that its just a simulation.
> Oh, so you'd have a little reminder process that every
> morning would remind you that you are in VR ?

I'm assuming you would have something SOMEWHERE letting you know which reality you are in.

> If the 'simulation' was that strong, it would take a very
> strong mind NOT to forget over time.

This is my point.

> > 4) Most amnesia history role playing won't be done with thousands of
> > people over decades of time.
> I don't care.
> VR is for playing Gods anyway.

Why fuck around with being Caesar (smelly italian dude in an era before anything approaching medicine was around) when you can REALLY, CONVINCINGLY be Shiva, destroyer of Worlds?

> Aw, Robin, you're being way to literally minded here. VR is already used
> for role playing in VR chat, and the trend in video games is that VR
> will be the state of the art in video games, and role playing is the
> form of long duration gaming of choice.
> Sex and Action Games will be the primary drivers for VR.

And drergs.

> The Military and Medical sides of things will pincer in
> from their own high-budget-but-shortsighted angles, and
> the two will eventually meet and produce IT.

Which is what we are seeing right now.

> Then all the technology will be thrown out a few years
> down the track as UpLoading becomes possible.

Well, the physical interface bit will, but that will only be about 10% of the process. the creation of synthetic environments parts will still be necessary and useful.

> As for the amnesia part, well, think about this: Take an 8 year old kid
> and stick him on a VR system for his education and entertainment, heck
> even for use for his physical fitness training, and by the time he's 18
> he won't know what is really reality. Real reality will seem blase,
> generic, vanilla compared to VR.
> Different.
> We need to get people away from this Black/White Real/Fake
> mentality. A VR world is in a _different_ universe, not
> necessarily a better or worse one.

Yeah, I mean there's acid casualties, and there's Not Fuckwits.

> > Really, instead of role-playing, VR will mostly be used to fascilitate
> > other goals. Shopping, travel, social gatherings, sales meetings, etc.
> All that boring shit nobody cares about.

Yes, but it is what pays the bills.

> VR will be able to 'tart it up' somewhat, but it won't
> be VR's main stock in trade.

Yes it will, same as right now most people are out there making money, not playing games.

> 'Role playing', a very crude
> term here, _is_ primarily what it will be used for, its
> just that 'Role Playing' will merge into normal life.
> Well, post Direct-Injection and on into UpLoading anwyay.

I would suggest that it's really all people are doing now, when you think about it.

we are clever apes who figured out how to go beyond hunting and gathering, really.

> And for gawds sake, all of you:
> Permutation City
> &
> Diaspora
> Both by Greg Egan. They say EVERYTHING there pretty much is to be
> said about VR, and also about the metaphysics that make VR a part of
> information physics and the universe at large.

I'm sure they are pretty familiar with them.