Re: New X-humanist forums (was/is: Not all >H's areExtropians(was RE: >H SLASH: Current topics.)

From: Max More (
Date: Fri Jun 23 2000 - 13:55:45 MDT

Brian: I'm not finding this discussion productive, and you seem also to
find our respective views too far apart to want to continue, so I'm going
to try to discontinue this discussion by keeping this response brief. You
have perceptions of Extropians and of libertarians that I disagree with. I
don't see any clear way to resolve our differing perceptions so I'm not
going to continue to try.

I will comment on your left-right point, just to say that I found your Bush
example only reinforces my point about the uselessness of the left-right
division. You picked *one* kind of policy (fiscal) where there is a view
that many would call "right-wing", i.e. opposition to increased government
spending. What if Bush talked about strengthening drug laws, banning
abortion, curtailing immigration, restricting "immoral" communications on
the net, to pick a few out of many possible examples? These would also be
called "right-wing" positions, yet libertarians would be against them all.
"Right" and "left" do not group views that have any real underlying
economic or philosophical consistency. The terms originally meant
conservative and radical. The left/right division may be simple and handy
for most public commentators but serious political philosophers and social
theorists do not usually employ these terms.

It would make far better sense to say that Extropians favor decentralized,
market-based, voluntaristic, emergent-order solutions to social
coordination issues than centrally-imposed solutions. That's much more
specific and informative than "right-wing". There are many people and
groups described as right-wing who favor centralized control in numerous

I appreciate you clarifying and qualifying your claims, to say that you
were not making statements about all Extropians. I do think you gave that
impression. You disagree. I will leave it at that.

>Hm.... this discussion probably isn't worth continuing much

Agreed. You think the individuals you communicated with had "irrational"
(not just mistaken) views about circumcision. I did not participate in
those discussions and so will not say anything more about this. It hardly
seems of much relevance to transhumanists.

>You don't seem "to have ears" for this discusion (to speak
>Nietzschean). So I think I'll stop here.

Accusing me of being unwilling to listen is pointless. I could do the same
to you. It won't get us anywhere, so I will not do so. Some of your other
comments seem unnecessarily inflammatory, but I refuse to be inflamed.

If we are to discuss political and economic differences among
transhumanists, why not take the emphasis away from general criticisms and
instead ask which specific policies and procedures will best further our
shared transhumanist goals while respecting our personal values?



Max More, Ph.D.
President, Extropy Institute.
CEO, MoreLogic Solutions. or

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