In a message dated 3/3/99 6:54:38 AM, Tim and Anthony agreed that:
> ... voluntarism, even in it's
> watered-down form as minarchist libertarianism, is unpopular with the
> masses. They appear to like slavery and socialism and being governed.
> Or at least they don't mind it very much, and they tend to resent
> anyone who questions their complacency. And perhaps Max, acting in
> his role as "spokesperson for Extropianism" would like to see big-E
> Extropianism popularized among and adopted by these same masses,
> incidentally leading to better chances for speaking gigs and book
> deals and talking head TV appearances for himself. Thus, the
> abandonment or at least shoving-aside of inconvenient voluntarism.
> I'm disgusted>>
Well guys, at the risk of being flamed , let me quote General Eisenhower about a week after the Pearl Harbor attack:
"In military dictatorships the required unity of effort is always insured by the authority resting in one man's hands. Every individual must conform to the dictator's orders, the alternative is the firing squad. So, from the beginning, the necessary mechanical coordination is automatic.
In democracy this result is achieved more slowly. The overwhelming majority of its citizens must first come to realize that a common danger threatens, that collective and individual self-preservation demands the submission of self-interest to the nation's welfare. Because this realization and this unification comes about so slowly, often only after disaster and loss of battles have rudely awakened a population, democracy is frequently condemned by unthinking critics as the least efficient form of government. Such criticism deals with the obvious factors only, it fails to throw into the balance the moral fibre, the staying qualities of a population. A democracy resorts to war only when the vast majority of its people become covinced that there is no other way out. The crisis they have entered is of their own choosing, and in the long, cruel ordeal of war this difference is likely to become decisive. The unification and coordination achieved this way is lasting. The people work together because they have a common belief in the justice of their cause and a common readiness to sacrifice for attainment of national success. It was in appreciation of the great strength arising from this truth that Woodrow Wilson said 'The highest form of efficiency is the spontaneous cooperation of a free people.'
My understanding of Libertarianism allows the government to act in the national defense. As a "Newbie" it is important to me that Extropianism does also.
I have served in the military of my country during an unpopular war (Viet Nam). Contrary to popular opinion, I and the overwhelming majority of my comrades believed in the justice of that war.
Is it not the highest form of love to give your life to save your friend's life? Is it not then the same to give 58,000 of your dearest American lives to save millions of Asian lives? We did it in WW2.
Not to open a hornet's nest, but my comrades and I were certain that cowardice was at the root of the protester's actions.