Re: Mormon Extropianism

Brent Allsop (
Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:53:36 -0700

Hey David <>,

> I was raised LDS, but have great difficulty believing many of the
> religion's claims without sufficient evidence. However, being a
> natural extropian, I was most affected by the extropian aspects of
> the religion.

This sounds exactly like me! If It's not to prying, I'd like
to know who you are? Where you live? Are you "active"?... I wish
there were more LDS extropians. I'm happy to know you. We should
probably take this off line since all extropians aren't necessarily
interested in LDS stuff the way you and I probably are.

> Brent Allsop has obviously not delved very deeply into the Mormon
> religion, or he would realize that its most basic doctrines are as
> Extropian as you can get.

It bothers me to hear you say this because, having been an
active, seriously investigating, LDS member my entire life (so far at
least). You must have an absurdly stringent definition of what you
mean by having "delved very deeply". I think it is simply more that
Mormonism is a lot of different things to a lot of different people.
For example, you said that according to Mormonism:

> The whole point of our existence is to learn, forever; to keep
> advancing and maturing and becoming more intelligent and powerful.
> This experience on Earth is only one of countless learning
> experiences we've had. And we will continue having more advanced
> learning experiences, forever.

But Bruce R. McConkie's response to such would be:

] Heresy one: There are those who say that God is progressing in
] knowledge and is learning new truths.
] This is false--utterly, totally, and completely. There is not
] one sliver of truth in it. It grows out of a wholly twisted and
] incorrect view of the King Follet Sermon and of what is meant by
] eternal progression....

Which is a quote from his (in?)famous 1980 "Seven Deadly
Heresies" talk at BYU. Now, I know everything BRM says isn't
necessarily true LDS doctrine, but he was one of the 12 and there are
many LDS that think very much like him right?

> The central core of Mormonism and Extropianism is the same --
> Progress is the highest priority. Joseph Smith (the founder of
> Mormonism) wrote, "The glory of God is intelligence." Sounds pretty
> extropian to me.

Yes exactly! I, too, get very excited about all the extropian
concepts in Mormonism. I also think it is possible to, if interpreted
very very losely and liberally, to believe that Mormonism can be taken
as the same as extropianism. Just like BRM has a different view of
Mormonism than others, I always ask if we can interpret Mormonism to
be Extropianism.

> The central core of Mormonism and Extropianism is the same --
> Progress is the highest priority.

To me it's a bit different. I would say, "achieving the best
possible" is the central core. The growth curve could turn out to be
asymptotic, meaning we do indeed become omni-everything, before some
given time; which would render more growth after crossing this
asymptote in time meaningless. I don't know if such would be better
than "eternal progress", but I like to leave open such possibilities
when expressing my "core" beliefs. In fact, I like Tipplers idea of
the "Omega Point" were we finally reach this omni-everything asymptote
within some finite "real time", yet we are progressing eternally
according to an accelerating "experiential time". You get to have
your cake and eat it too in that plan! ;)

One of the main problems I have with fundamental LDS beliefs,
and other fundamentalist beliefs, is the way they seek to justify and
accept evil wrather than hopping, and more importantly striving as if,
it can be overcome. Many LDS think that universal salvation is
hopeless and they believe things like souls must experience death in
order to become God and so on. From this most LDS are anti cryonic
and anti search for a cure for aging and so on. It is simply such
beliefs as these that I am working against. And many LDS seem to, as
you say, focus on these kinds of things, wrather than the more
extropian beliefs. So much so that it seems impossible to me to
really unite Extropianism with Mormonism in any kind of productive

Anyway, thanks for your reply, and I'm glad to know that I'm
not the only Extropian LDS.

Brent Allsop