Re: Immortality and Resources

J. de Lyser (
Tue, 04 Feb 1997 02:03:22 +0100

At 19:23 2-02-97 +0000, wrote:
>On Fri, 31 Jan 1997, Michael Lorrey wrote:
>> Maybe its me, but all of the people I talk to from New Zealand on the
>> net seem to have varying degrees of this socialist memeplex of
>> "capitalism is evil" propaganda.

>Not surprising, as, like Britain, the country had a long socialist
>tradition which has been increasingly dismantled in the last couple of

Transhumanists in socialist democracies, like you in your system, work
within the system they have. Jim has the same goals most of us have
regarding the autoevolution of humanity, yet his route to accomplish these
is projected on his political system. What he doesn't see or maybe doesn't
accept, is that his system is changing towards yours, and yours a little
towards his. In the time i was in college my ideas were pretty much the
same as his, when i stepped into the REAL world they changed pretty fast.
Humans are practical and rational, and many will adapt to a situation and
proceed to pursue their goals, in a way that will bring result efficiently,
those that don't, won't see much of their goals realized. Like you found
efficient ways to do it in yours, we find efficient ways to do it in ours,
our logic shaped by that of the system we have to work with.

Please note that this not only goes for people in social democracies who
refuse to adapt to change to a more free market system, but for people in
the states as well, who refuse to adapt to new political and social trends.
Times are changing, a little of the old, a little of the other, plus a new
element ?

Any political systems influence is just what the individual makes of it,
opportunities, inventiveness and resourcefullness, are trades that benefit
individuals in ANY political system, allthough i agree in some more than in
others, they are NOT inherent to capitalism exclusively. Whereas these
individual characteristics mean little in a politically/socially stable
society (!), they tend to flourish in one that is subject to rapid
change... ;-)

Personally i'd go with any political system that allows the best
possibilities for the realization of transhumanist goals, A system that
works, works. Fact is the American capitalist system works best at this
point in our status of development (for most people that is, but again
that's what a democracy is about isn't it ?), but that doesn't mean we can
sit back and relax, until it doesn't work anymore. More efficient ways can
be found, and it would be pretty foolish not to even CONSIDER things that
worked in any other form of political system, because we worship our own
form like a 'sacred cow' (btw, this also goes for you Jim), or because we
even FEAR one particular other form, of which the signals have been very
obvious to identify on this list recently. Very rational and open minded of
you my fellow transhumans. :(

Socialist influence on society is losing ground everywhere in the world
except in the US, and the increase of it in your country is only logical,
as it no longer needs to set an example against an ennemy powers ideology.
So logical and predictable. The Roman empire fell, the English empire
couldn't hold, and the communists suffered the same fate. I had really
hoped the open mindedness of the scope of time all of you discuss space
exploration and the future in general in, would have reflected a little bit
more on your political/social and historical perspectives. But instead you
all seem to assume a capitalist democracy in its current form (The United
States of Earth ?) ruling the universe for eons to come i guess.

Has the thousand year empire finally arrived while the rest of the world
was sleeping ?

Sweet dreams my friends, for as long as they last...

J. de Lyser
Partcipant Evolutionist Movement