Re: On January 28th, Criminals No Longer Another Face in the TampaStadium C...

From: John Marlow (
Date: Sat Feb 03 2001 - 09:58:17 MST

Yah. Interesting points. 'Tis why so many disasters are now caught on
tape; as the stuff gets cheaper there's more of it out there and it's
more likely someone nearby will have a cam.

Re: Rodney King: Here's the thing. The law never caught up with the
tech; very often, while it IS illegal to record audio, it is NOT
illegal to record video. Go figure.

Interesting cop case in Sacramento: Guy gets hi-beams in mirror,
flips the guy behind him the finger. The guy behind him turns out to
be a cop, who pulls him over, puts a gun to his head, threatens to
kill him, etc.

Never happened, says the cop. He never resisted; no reason to draw.

Thing is, he pulled the guy over in front of a nighttime security
camera. Oops.

New story: I don't remember that.

Yah. The cop actually did time. Immediately after this incident, CA
DA's got the ball rolling to ensure that such "surprise evidence"
couldn't embarrass the prosecution in the future. Instead, it must be
revealed early on.

>David Brin has made a strong case that the reality of a
> populous equipped for ubiquitous audio-video recording will have a
> significant impact on the legal system and society at large.

Heh. Col. Jeff Cooper has noted that "An armed society is a polite
society." Perhaps that will be true of a "wired" society as well!

john marlow


On 3 Feb 2001, at 7:28, wrote:

> [. . . taking my in-box out of order . . . ] > > In a message dated 2/3/01 1:34:03 AM Central Standard Time, > writes: > > [re impact of citizen recording of police behavior] > > > Well, you know, I hate to wax realistic on you--but at the moment, > > this is not bogus; this is reality--and cyborgish humans are bogus. > > Reality has its drawbacks. > > Ahh, but reality has a way of catching up with "bogus" ideas. First, recall > Rodney King. Second, note that the camera I bought to plug into my computer > recently (that I mentioned in another post a moment ago) cost less than $50 > retail and is packaged in a plastic housing smaller than 4 cubic inches, most > of which is empty space. Third, note that video and audio data compression > technology continues to progress at an astonishing rate. Fourth, note that > the price of digital storage technology continues to drop precipitously. > Fifth, the price of the technology for detecting a device's position (i.e. > GPS) is also falling continuously. Finally, note that the intersection of > PDA and cell phone technology proceeds apace. > > Put all these things together and you have at least the distinct possibility > that a significant number of "normal" people will at some point be carrying > audio-video recording devices that automagically note and record the time and > place of a specific recorded event. Although I by no means agree with all of > the moral conclusions he draws from observing these same facts and > possibilities, David Brin has made a strong case that the reality of a > populous equipped for ubiquitous audio-video recording will have a > significant impact on the legal system and society at large. > > I don't think it's a big leap to project that by 2010 (2020 at the very > latest) an "always-on" audio-video PDA will be a CHEAP and universal item of > personal equipment. Yes, it's a bigger leap from there to an implant. But > even the "mature" external PDA will have significant impact. For instance, I > can easily imagine that at a certain point a practical presumption will be > raised that a person has a right to keep her PDA with her and on throughout > any encounter with the police. Such a common-sense presumption would lead to > effects on the relationship of citizens to the police as great or greater > than Miranda and its progeny. > > Greg Burch <>----<> > Attorney ::: Vice President, Extropy Institute ::: Wilderness Guide > -or- > ICQ # 61112550 > "We never stop investigating. We are never satisfied that we know > enough to get by. Every question we answer leads on to another > question. This has become the greatest survival trick of our species." > -- Desmond Morris >

John Marlow

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