Non-Artistic AIs/Uploading--was Adrian's Re: Paradox --was Re: Active shields,was Re: Criticism depth,was Re: Homework, Nuke, etc..

From: John Marlow (
Date: Sat Jan 13 2001 - 20:03:55 MST

**See below

--- Adrian Tymes <> wrote:
> John Marlow wrote:
> >
> > > A: Become one of the super AIs.
> >
> > Q: How do you do this when the first AI decides it
> > will be the ONLY AI?
> >
> > A: You don't.
> Q: How does the first AI in its earliest moments,
> struggling to come to
> terms with itself and learning how to manipulate the
> world, keep other
> AIs from coming into existence in the meanwhile
> (which will probably be
> at least several years)?
> A: It can't. Enforcement waits until it can -
> providing a window for
> people to upload, and if necessary, escape the
> dominating AI's sphere
> of influence.

**I see people working to build an AI and making
progress. I don't see the same progress toward
uploading. Besides--once the thing goes critical,
you've lost control. That could take years, or
seconds. You may not see it coming. The AI might
conceal its progress, and so on.

**After all--would YOU, trust US?

> > > Ok, so you'll have to still keep working on
> saving
> > > the world, providing
> > > for you and your kin, and generally making
> things go
> > > 'round. If you
> > > ever stop, you're superfluous to those who
> haven't,
> > > whatever form they
> > > may take. This is true with or without AIs, no?
> >
> > No. A Rembrandt is not superfluous--whether he
> > contributes to making things go round or doesn't.
> >
> > Same for a John Lennon.
> Ah, but they do. Art isn't superfluous: someone has
> to dream the dream.

**I suggest to you that art WILL be superfluous to an
AI--and that anything which cannot fathom the value of
art is unsuited to make our decisions for us. (Okay,
maybe this is an eccentric POV; I think it's valid.
And to appreciate art, you need emotions. And an AI
with emotions is unsuitable to make our decisions for
us. And...)

> I'm talking about doing things for pure pleasure,
> that produces nothing
> for anyone outside of the doer. I.e., indulging in
> luxury, and letting
> pleasure, as opposed to providing value to others,
> be the only thing
> that drives you.

**Ah--but Rembrandt died a pauper BECAUSE his works
did not 'provide value to others' in his time. And
that was in the judgement of his fellow humans.
Imagine, if you can, what an AI would think of it.

john marlow

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