Re: Surveilance was: Transhuman fascists?

From: Michael S. Lorrey (
Date: Wed Mar 29 2000 - 14:09:55 MST

Zero Powers wrote:

> >From: "Michael S. Lorrey" <>
> > > Believe it or not I'm not stupid enough to believe that power
> >proportional
> > > transparency is now in place to any significant extent. I was merely
> > > replying to Mike Lorrey who suggested that a system which allowed the
> >little
> > > guy to know more about the leaders than the leaders knew about the
> >little
> > > guy would lead to the leaders being assasinated forthwith. I was just
> > > pointing out that that is not necessarily the case.
> >
> >Without offering an evidence that it would not be. There are very few
> >countries
> >today where a national leader can go about his business like an average
> >person.
> >The rate of assassination of national leaders is somewhere around 60%,
> >worldwide. Those that stay in power longest are those who don't expose
> >themselves.
> I don't know where you get 60%, but assuming that's true, I bet that 95%
> percent of those assasinations occurred in closed or undemocratic societies.
> Transparency will solve that.

How? Bald statements don't make it true.

> Also, you are again mixing apples and oranges. You are talking about the
> state of affairs "today." I am talking about "tomorrow" where there will be
> greater technological means to protect the safety of those leaders from whom
> we require the greatest transparency.
> > > Perhaps you came in late in the thread, but Mike Lorrey was replying to
> >my
> > > proposal that once a democratic "Global" government was in place there
> >would
> > > be no need for such things as "national" security. I never proposed
> >that
> > > *all* government disappear. I don't want to (nor expect that I ever
> >will)
> > > live in a global anarchy. I presume that there will *always* be rules
> >and a
> > > means by which to ensure that they are complied with. A global
> >government
> > > would be no less a government than a national government. And as long
> >as
> > > there is government, and as long as antitrust rules are deemed
> >beneficial to
> > > society, there will be antitrust rules and the means by which to enforce
> > > them.
> >
> >How about anti-trust action against government. After all, its a monopoly,
> >and
> >for one monopoly to go around destroying other monopolies is not justice,
> >its
> >merely showing the hypocracy of the idea of government.
> Well presently its not against the law to be the only government in your
> state. In fact I can't think of how multiple governments per jurisdiction
> could possibly work. There's nothing hypocritical about it. I think you're
> letting your hyberole get away with you again :)

Study up kiddo. Check out David Friedman's work on PPL and PPA systems.

> >As long as one person wants what another person has, or hates another
> >person for
> >no good reason, there will always be a need for people to defend themselves
> >against violence.
> And so?


> >In your world, the average person would be deluged every day by
> >notifications
> >that they were monitored by 200 national intelligence and law enforcement
> >agencies, 3,465,783 corporations, and 54,567,892 individuals. If you think
> >your
> >inbox is big now, wait till your xanadu is reached....
> You've never heard of a killfile?

You are not only being sarcastically obtuse, you are being facetiously naive and
What is the purpose of mutuality if you toss away every instance of your being
notified that someone surveilled you? How will you filter out all of those
notifications? With the same PIII computer on your desktop that you claim can
process the entire worlds surveillance video feeds? Get real.

> > > Although keeping in mind that for everytime you *get* information about
> > > someone else you also have to *give* that same information about
> >yourself, I
> > > don't know how anxious you would be to be doing research on 90% of the
> > > population. That could very well make you a *very* popular guy :)
> >
> >So what if I tell 6 billion people what my sexual preference is? I tell
> >that one
> >fact, and I can get 6 billion facts on the same question about each and
> >every
> >one of those people. Its not equivalent. I may have pissed off a small
> >small
> >minority, but I now KNOW a huge amount of data about a lot of people, and
> >that
> >gives me power.
> That gives you *nothing* except that X% of the population is homosexual.
> What are you going to do with that? Take over the world? Here let me help
> you: I'm heterosexual. Only 5,999,999,999 more people to ask and then boy
> will you be powerful.

If I were a homophobe, and a psychopathic one at that, I would then know where
every gay person in the world lived, and when they would be home, etc. A
homophobe would distribute this information to all other homophobes on the
planet, so every time a homophobe wanted to beat or kill a gay person, they
would know exactly where and when to find any gay person they felt like offing.
A homophobe could likewise mail biochemical weapons to every gay person on the
planet embedded in a free sample Lambda sticker, with preprogrammed deployment
dates. Are you starting to get the picture? Fascists love systems like yours...

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