Re: Crime and Safety engineering [was: Ooh a gun fight!!]

From: Michael S. Lorrey (
Date: Mon Mar 13 2000 - 19:39:29 MST

"Robert J. Bradbury" wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Mar 2000, Zero Powers wrote:
> > >From: "Michael S. Lorrey" <>
> > >
> > > > >Facts are that guns are what keeps as many people in this country in
> > > > >circulation as possible. Proven fact, undeniable. Largest statistical
> > > > >database examined to date (and the most unbiased one).
> > > >
> > >FBI Database of Crime Statistics, 1979 to 1995.
> [Note *1995*....]

he did the study in 1997, at the behest of Handgun Control Inc (HCI)
because they were convinced that the 'shall-issue' concealed carry laws
that were being passed in many states in the 1988-92 period were causing
crime to go up. He discovered that it was the reverse, which they didn't
want to beleive, they took him to court and got an injunction against
him ever mentioning that they had originally hired him. They didn't pay
him for the work, and he had to come out with the book in order to
recoupe the costs of the study. HCI went apopleptic over his release of
his study, and hired some of their best zombies to claim that his study
was 'flawed' (when they never read the study), and announced that since
his professorship position at the University of Chicago had been
originally endowed by the Olin Foundation, and that that Olin
Corporation makes guns (when the two are not related), that he was
> >
> > Not even remotely close to "undeniable." Sure everyone knows that crime has
> > been steadily decreasing recently. *Nothing* I have ever seen attributes
> > this trend to the large number of guns circulating in society.
> I believe it was mentioned on the list a month or two ago (perhaps
> before Mike returned), but not particularly well discussed, that the
> current working academic theory (albeit a very controversial one),
> circa *1999*, is that the decline in "crime" in recent years correlates
> strongly with the legalization of abortion. Fewer unwanted children -->
> fewer criminals, nothing to do with guns at all, entirely a sociological
> phenomena.

The rise in youth violence can also be tied to the rise in use of SSRIs
by children, and it can be tied to the rise in inner city welfare

> Now, just to balance the discussion, I've seen "statements" to the
> effect, that the rash of youth violence in recent times is not a change
> in the actual incidence but a change in the reporting by news hungry
> sensationalistic media. Where adultery and children running amok
> were once "private" issues, they have now become fodder for public
> voyerism.

Very much so. Ask the average person, and they will insist that there
have been more school shootings this past year than ever before. Fact is
that there were fewer such incidents than ever before, and if it weren't
for the Columbine incident, there would have been fewer deaths on school
grounds than ever before. The gun controllers insist this isn't true,
but they are also the same people that insist on defining a 'child' as
anyone 25 or under.

> I will state however, that IMO, the gun manufacturers are being
> irresponsible in this day and age of technology, selling products
> that are not engineered so that only the owner can turn them on.
> If you can protect a computer from misuse, you should be able to
> engineer weapons so that they cannot accidentally (or intentionally
> in the wrong hands) harm people. If you accept this premise, the
> efforts by the gun manufacturers (or members of Congress) to try
> and enact laws that can keep people from suing the gun manufacturers
> are highly misguided. [I might be willing to grandfather certain very
> old weapons, but modern day products should be engineered to be safe.]

You can engineer computers to be protected from misuse by use of the
very circuitry the computer is made up of. To protect a gun from misuse,
you will need to install a computer on the gun, that is small enough,
power supply and all, to not impede the use of the gun. Current research
models are projected to add a minimum of $1000.00 to the cost of each
gun if put in production, which also decreases their reliability, as gun
recoil is NOT something that electronics are particularly good at
dealing with on a frequent basis, and compact power supplies are
notoriously short lived. Additionally, such technology limits the gun's
use to the OWNER. Other family members or employees would not be able to
use them.

Mike Lorrey

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