Deep Anarchy List

From: upgrade (
Date: Thu Feb 24 2000 - 19:18:07 MST

I've decided to go ahead with the creation of the Deep Anarchy
List. Below is my proposal for most of the list Welcome message.
(A few "housekeeping details" will be added.)

Your comments and suggestions are most welcome.

Frederick Mann

This welcome message for the Deep Anarchy List contains two parts:
(1) List Purpose and Scope
(2) General Guidelines for subscribers

Part 1: List Purpose and Scope

<>, Max More, Ph.D.,
President, Extropy Institute. <> (writing as
Max T. O'Connor) coined the term "Deep Anarchy":

"Traditional anarchists want to abolish the "State." In planning their
strategies and in doing their thinking about this they rarely question
the existence or fundamental nature of their enemy. This situation
wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the fact that their mistaken beliefs
often lead them into counterproductive political strategies. Thus we
observe the ludicrous sight of self-named anarchists joining political
parties (usually the Libertarian Party) in order to hasten the end of
the system. The idea seems to be: We can remove it by being
absorbed by it!

I want to suggest that when we talk of "the State" we are not talking
of any entity, either concrete or abstract. I will provide two main
arguments for this: One from considerations of methodological
individualism, and another that could be called "the argument from
fuzziness." "Deep Anarchy" is the view that results from these
thoughts; it is the idea that we already live in an anarchy."

The purpose of the list is to explore the deepest aspects of
coercive political systems -- which manifest in individual human
minds. According to Robert Pirsig in 'Zen and the Art of Motorcycle

"But to tear down a factory or to revolt against a government or to
avoid repairs of a motorcycle because it is a system is to attack
effects rather than causes; and as long as the attack is upon
effects only, no change is possible. The true system, the real
system, is our present construction of systematic thought itself,
rationality itself. And if a factory is torn down but the rationality
which produced it is left standing, then that rationality will simply
produce another factory. If a revolution destroys a systematic
government, but the systematic patterns of thought that produced
that government are left intact, then those patterns will repeat
themselves in the succeeding government..."

A Deep Anarchist is someone who has examined and radically
changed certain "systematic patterns of thought" which most
traditional anarchists take for granted, without question or

Max More indicates: "Traditional anarchists want to abolish the
"State." In planning their strategies and in doing their thinking
about this they rarely question the existence or fundamental
nature of their enemy." For an examination of the "enemy,"
see '#TL07B: The Nature of Government'

The main purpose of the list is for subscribers to assist each
other in becoming Deep Anarchists. A secondary purpose is
to persuade others to also become Deep Anarchists. A further
purpose is to explore appropriate strategies and tactics for
Deep Anarchists to apply in order to expand freedom.

According to Sally Kempton: "It is hard to fight an enemy
who has outposts in your head." One of the insights of Deep
Anarchy is that certain "systematic patterns of thought"
(Pirsig) constitute "enemy outposts" in the heads of
traditional anarchists that "often lead them into
counterproductive political strategies" (More). Deep
Anarchists have removed the "enemy outposts" from
their heads.

According to Steve Biko: "The most potent weapon in the
hands of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed."
As a result of cultural conditioning, practically all humans,
including most traditional anarchists, have certain "enemy
outposts" (Kempton) or "systematic patterns of thought"
(Pirsig) that "often lead them into counterproductive political
strategies" (More). Deep Anarchists realize that in some
important ways the minds of traditional anarchists are in
a sense "owned" by their enemies and used as vehicles
to reinforce, perpetuate, and propagate coercive political

Pemes = political memes. Deep Anarchists realize that
the most fundamental "enemy" consists of certain Deep
Pemes. The power of coercive political systems depend
on these Deep Pemes being reinforced, perpetuated, and
propagated without question or challenge. See '#TL074:

Loosely speaking, traditional anarchists can be categorized
as Anarcho-Socialists -- 'An Anarchist FAQ Webpage'
<> -- and
Anarcho-Capitalists -- 'Anarchist Theory FAQ' by Bryan Caplan
Unproductive arguments and attacks between the two sides,
claiming that their anarchism is the "only anarchism" are not
appropriate for the Deep Anarchy list. We want as many
anarchists as possible to become Deep Anarchists.

Bridging gaps between Anarcho-Socialists and Anarcho-Capitalists
is appropriate for the list.

Part 2: List Guidelines

List-usage Rules:
1) Please keep your posts relevant to the topic of Deep Anarchy.
2) Subscription to the list is at the sole discretion of the list
owners. The list owners reserve the right to remove and/or ban
anyone from the list at the owners' discretion.
3) No personal or ad hominem attacks. Discussions among
a large number of people will inevitably bring disagreements;
however, counter-statements and opposing viewpoints should
always be presented in a rational, logical, sensitive and mature
manner. Anyone using the list to conduct personal attacks will
be unsubscribed and permanently banned from the list.
4) No "make-wrong" posts -- this means no messages whose
purpose is strictly to tell another subscriber that he or she is
wrong and that you are right. Please make a deliberate effort
with every post to produce desirable results. It's much more
productive when everyone focuses on producing desirable
results. For essential reading on this see the 'bicameral stage
2' section of: <>.
5) Please respect the time of others and refrain from posting
time-wasting messages.
6) No advertising or spamming.
7) Owners and subscribers can invite anyone to subscribe to
the list.
8) Neither the list owners nor any subscribers can be
held liable in any way for any information obtained in any
form from this list. The list owners and maintainers
are not responsible for any information or advice given on
this list and make no claims for the competence of any
advice or information mentioned by list subscribers.
9) If you decide to remain subscribed to this discussion
list, your doing so indicates agreement by you to all of the
policies and guidelines outlined in this Welcome Message.
Please unsubscribe immediately if you are unable to agree,
by sending a blank email to:

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